1800 in France

[viewfly]

I'm travelling this week in Paris, using 1800mhz on my Nokia 6230.

I've been on the streets, inside the middle of 7 story department stores(and their basements), the middle of the Louvre, on the Metro subway stations, and Metro trains in the tunnels, and I am still getting full bars signals.

The 1800 Mhz coverage in very very good here. With repeaters, and the good coverage area, one would not even have a discussion about pentration with 1800, as we have in the states.

[Airb330]

Originally Posted by viewfly

I'm travelling this week in Paris, using 1800mhz on my Nokia 6230.

I've been on the streets, inside the middle of 7 story department stores(and their basements), the middle of the Louvre, on the Metro subway stations, and Metro trains in the tunnels, and I am still getting full bars signals.

The 1800 Mhz coverage in very very good here. With repeaters, and the good coverage area, one would not even have a discussion about pentration with 1800, as we have in the states.

You on BT? They have the best coverage there by far and are 1800 only. Orange (900/1800) was horrible, and Vodafone (900/1800) was OK. Since I was using a seem-edited v400, I could see and choose which networks I wanted to use. I wonder what the Cingular default over there is.

I used the metro everyday for 30 days, all over the city. Some lines have no service (never got much service on lines 4 and 1), some have 100% service on all carriers, some only have Orange service, some only have SFR service, and some only have BT service! I think they are slowly getting all 3 in all lines.

I did lose service on Bouygues Telecom in parts of the Louvre (Egyptian area), but Orange and SFR weren't much better. Overall, coverage was OK, but nothing special really. Many indoor places I went, only Bouygues Telecom worked. Don't bother with their prepaid...it never fully worked for me, and ended up being a hassle and just as expensive as Cingular. Maybe SFR or Orange's prepaid works better for int'l calls. Out in the boondocks, BT was generally better, or SFR. I still hit areas with bad coverage. I'll be back someday soon, it's my second home (was there for 4 weeks in jan). Have fun!!

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Airb330

You on BT? They have the best coverage there by far and are 1800 only. Orange (900/1800) was horrible, and Vodafone (900/1800) was OK. Since I was using a seem-edited v400, I could see and choose which networks I wanted to use. I wonder what the Cingular default over there is.

I used the metro everyday for 30 days, all over the city. Some lines have no service (never got much service on lines 4 and 1), some have 100% service on all carriers, some only have Orange service, some only have SFR service, and some only have BT service! I think they are slowly getting all 3 in all lines.

I did lose service on Bouygues Telecom in parts of the Louvre (Egyptian area), but Orange and SFR weren't much better. Overall, coverage was OK, but nothing special really. Many indoor places I went, only Bouygues Telecom worked. Don't bother with their prepaid...it never fully worked for me, and ended up being a hassle and just as expensive as Cingular. Maybe SFR or Orange's prepaid works better for int'l calls. Out in the boondocks, BT was generally better, or SFR. I still hit areas with bad coverage. I'll be back someday soon, it's my second home (was there for 4 weeks in jan). Have fun!!

The beauty, it seems, of using the Cingular SIM, is that it defaults to the strongests carrier...I never worried about it. Mostly, I have been on BT or SFR, less so Orange F. But some areas are strongly OF. My experience has been extremely good, even in elevators. In my local Mall in Conn. I normally don't get service in the department stores. I have the V551 with me (Quad) and the two phones seem to agree on the carrier choice.

I never tried pre pay here, but being able to use all 3 networks is a plus.

[Andy]

I'm surprised about Airb's bad experiences with SFR, I had the totally opposite experiences while all over France.
Anyways, coverage, even in bulding coverage in Europe is generally excellent and 100%, even in underground parking garages. I love coverage in Europe, it's awesome!

Andy

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

I'm surprised about Airb's bad experiences with SFR, I had the totally opposite experiences while all over France.
Anyways, coverage, even in bulding coverage in Europe is generally excellent and 100%, even in underground parking garages. I love coverage in Europe, it's awesome!

Andy

Me too. My experience has been excellent coverage, esp since we worry so much about 1800 building coverage in the USA.

[Airb330]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

I'm surprised about Airb's bad experiences with SFR, I had the totally opposite experiences while all over France.
Anyways, coverage, even in bulding coverage in Europe is generally excellent and 100%, even in underground parking garages. I love coverage in Europe, it's awesome!

Andy

Orange was worse.

Overall, 1800 was definitely better. Almost every bar/small store I went into had zero to little coverage, and if there was....it was Bouygues only. I definitely want to go and show my parents and/or friends all the places I went to....so I'll get to re-evaluate. Maybe my old v400 didn't get good reception on the 900 band?

[bobolito]

So, putting coverage aside, how is the call quality? Does the sound break up every 5 seconds like it does here in NJ because of the excessive number of handoffs and codec mode changes even if you are standing still in one place?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by viewfly

Me too. My experience has been excellent coverage, esp since we worry so much about 1800 building coverage in the USA.

Yeah- I know what you mean, over there it's not an issue at all.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Airb330

Orange was worse.

Overall, 1800 was definitely better. Almost every bar/small store I went into had zero to little coverage, and if there was....it was Bouygues only. I definitely want to go and show my parents and/or friends all the places I went to....so I'll get to re-evaluate. Maybe my old v400 didn't get good reception on the 900 band?

Maybe your phone wasn't doing well on the 900 band then, because this seems almost impossible. Every provider has Paris blanketed with coverage and I never had problems, whether inside a building or walking down a busy street.
SFR was great throughout France and was the carrier I used mostly, since I got cheaper roaming rates on them.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by bobolito

So, putting coverage aside, how is the call quality? Does the sound break up every 5 seconds like it does here in NJ because of the excessive number of handoffs and codec mode changes even if you are standing still in one place?

Call quality is excellent, period.

[Airb330]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

Call quality is excellent, period.

Agreed. Sounded better than any landline I used . The only exception was when I was using my Bouygues Telecom prepaid SIM, people said I sounded like crap. Something about their prepaid and int'l calls just didn't work well.

The bar we mostly went to was a dead zone. I noticed that people couldn't complete calls on their gasp...nokias in there! Of course, they were on Orange and SFR, which didn't work in there. While I do think my v400 was useless on 900, Bouygues Telecom worked the best for me. Are they 1800 only....cause I've seen it both ways in a lot of places.

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by bobolito

So, putting coverage aside, how is the call quality? Does the sound break up every 5 seconds like it does here in NJ because of the excessive number of handoffs and codec mode changes even if you are standing still in one place?

No, not at all. Audio was really mostly excellent, even calls back to the States. No break up during the calls. Only once, did one call get dropped in the middle and I noticed that my phone switched carriers. Otherwise, the quality is really like landline.

One thing that I notice both in the States and in France; the ring that I hear in the earpiece always sounds really poor, choppy, like it used to with a poor TDMA connection. But once the call is connected, the call quality is great.

Any ideas why the audio can be so good, but the ringing so poor??

[Charlyee]

Originally Posted by viewfly

No, not at all. Audio was really mostly excellent, even calls back to the States. No break up during the calls. Only once, did one call get dropped in the middle and I noticed that my phone switched carriers. Otherwise, the quality is really like landline.

One thing that I notice both in the States and in France; the ring that I hear in the earpiece always sounds really poor, choppy, like it used to with a poor TDMA connection. But once the call is connected, the call quality is great.

Any ideas why the audio can be so good, but the ringing so poor??

I have never had this problem either in the States or overseas. The ringing sounds pretty normal to me. On the other hand, the problem I have had in the States is with the volume of background music or announcements while on hold. They are either choppy or too low but like your experience when a real person comes on at the other end, the quality is great...interesting.

[bobolito]

In Europe, South America (and many other parts of the world) the ringing tone is a continuous "flat" tone instead of the "vibrating" ringing tone that we get in the US. Maybe that's what you mean by "poor"?

If you want to hear a really poor sounding ringing tone just call any AT&T user from NJ when their phone is off. You'll hear the ring from the voicemail system before it picks up. It sounds so tinny and "cheap." However, if the phone is on and the phone is actually ringing, then the "ring" sounds normal.

[bobolito]

Originally Posted by viewfly

No, not at all. Audio was really mostly excellent, even calls back to the States. No break up during the calls. Only once, did one call get dropped in the middle and I noticed that my phone switched carriers. Otherwise, the quality is really like landline.

See? why can't they build a GSM network like that here in the US? The only place I've noticed call quality that can be described as excellent has been in CT.

[Airb330]

Originally Posted by viewfly

One thing that I notice both in the States and in France; the ring that I hear in the earpiece always sounds really poor, choppy, like it used to with a poor TDMA connection. But once the call is connected, the call quality is great.

A

Yeah, I got that too. Sounds like GSM at -100db or something. I get it about 1/2 the time back home too! I'll look and have 5 bars, but as soon as my call is connected it is crystal clear! I dunno wtf causes it.

Bobolito I'd say DE has pretty good call quality when I'm not getting an AMR fart or something stupid. Back home it sound perfect 98% of the time, just in the cities where it gets congested it gets messy sometimes. Shoo, I used VZ this weekend (another friend was using my phone), I couldn't understand a thing my dad said on an a670 and my friend's 8900 was sllightly better. I just gave up and waited to call on my phone.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Airb330

Agreed. Sounded better than any landline I used . The only exception was when I was using my Bouygues Telecom prepaid SIM, people said I sounded like crap. Something about their prepaid and int'l calls just didn't work well.

The bar we mostly went to was a dead zone. I noticed that people couldn't complete calls on their gasp...nokias in there! Of course, they were on Orange and SFR, which didn't work in there. While I do think my v400 was useless on 900, Bouygues Telecom worked the best for me. Are they 1800 only....cause I've seen it both ways in a lot of places.

I thought Bouygues is 1800 only but I might be wrong. Their network is one of the newest in France as I'm sure you know.

[ShoresGuy]

Strangely enough, gsmworld.com claims that BT is GSM 900/1800.

http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/cou_fr.shtml

I know they tend to be wrong from time to time but prepaidgsm.net says the same:

http://www.prepaidgsm.net/en/francia.html

Anyway, E-Plus and O2 Germany are the very solid GSM-1800 only German networks. I've used E-Plus for 4 years and I've rarely had a dead spot or coverage problems.

[Andy]

Well maybe I was wrong then. I though that they at least started out with 1800 only.
1800 only carriers in Europe generally have no problems providing coverage, includiong indoor coverage. Only reason their coverage might not be as widespread as some 900 carriers is because 1800 only carriers popped up much later than 900 only or 900/1800 carriers.

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by bobolito

See? why can't they build a GSM network like that here in the US? The only place I've noticed call quality that can be described as excellent has been in CT.

Well I live in CT. But I would call the quality equally good here in the big cities, like Boston, NY, Houston, both on Tmobile and Cingular. Coverage is something else, of course.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by viewfly

Well I live in CT. But I would call the quality equally good here in the big cities, like Boston, NY, Houston, both on Tmobile and Cingular. Coverage is something else, of course.

Well but some of those European countries are about the size of Utah-you'd think that they'd be covered well, especially if most areas of the country are more or less populated, and not like here where you can drive for an hour and not see a single house.

[bobolito]

Originally Posted by viewfly

Well I live in CT. But I would call the quality equally good here in the big cities, like Boston, NY, Houston, both on Tmobile and Cingular. Coverage is something else, of course.

Hmmm, you have to spend sometime in NYC and NJ to see that CT has 100 times better call quality.

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by bobolito

Hmmm, you have to spend sometime in NYC and NJ to see that CT has 100 times better call quality.

Well,I'm almost never in NJ. In NYC, I'm in a few times a year, but mostly my call quality is good. In CT, where I am alot, the signal strength varies alot due to the terrain, and the call quality is mostly good, but i can lose a call or have it be on the verge of break up in poorer coverage area. In Paris, the signal was excellent(full bars). With a few exceptions (ie the Eiffel Tower), the buildings are no more than 5-7 stories high. The Eiffel and the some other buildings are WAY above the rest of the city.

Very much unlike NYC, which is very unique.

[ShoresGuy]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

Well maybe I was wrong then. I though that they at least started out with 1800 only.
1800 only carriers in Europe generally have no problems providing coverage, includiong indoor coverage. Only reason their coverage might not be as widespread as some 900 carriers is because 1800 only carriers popped up much later than 900 only or 900/1800 carriers.

I'm inclined to believe that this is the case. I also recall them being 1800-only a few years back but perhaps they felt the need to add 900 in order to keep up with Orange and SFR.

[Andy]

Carriers over there have so many cellsites, that I'd think there wouldn't be a penetration issue, etc. for 1800 carriers needing to add 900 to keep up with competition(coverage wise, at least IMO)??
Bouygus popped up much later than SFR and Orange, though, same with E-Plus and O2 in Germany. They popped up while T-Mobile and Mannesman Mobilfunk(Vodafone D2) already had very well build out networks.

[ShoresGuy]

Indeed, 1800-only providers do quite well here without the need for additional towers at 900 Mhz. It is probably also a cost factor which 1800-only providers like to avoid since they have to apply for a GSM 900 license as well as invest in the technology to add GSM 900 overlays their towers.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by ShoresGuy

Indeed, 1800-only providers do quite well here without the need for additional towers at 900 Mhz. It is probably also a cost factor which 1800-only providers like to avoid since they have to apply for a GSM 900 license as well as invest in the technology to add GSM 900 overlays their towers.

True-and also, unlike the original, most used 900 carriers that have started adding 1800 for capacity reasons, carriers that started out with 1800 only don't really have those problems.
Have you ever really had capacity issues in Germany/U.K.? I haven't.

[Airb330]

I think Orange and SFR use 1800 in cities mostly. I've read BT only has GPRS on 1800 (I had GPRS the whole time), but I also read they only use 900 in the cities, but have 1800 nationwide also. I'm not sure, but I'm sure BT had the best network. We went out to the Maginot Line and around those areas (I got some Belgian networks ) and also to the Loire Valley....there were a few spots where I only had BT. If not, it was BT/Orange, or BT/SFR. Orange was by far the worst...and it seems everyone had them too.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Airb330

I think Orange and SFR use 1800 in cities mostly. I've read BT only has GPRS on 1800 (I had GPRS the whole time), but I also read they only use 900 in the cities, but have 1800 nationwide also. I'm not sure, but I'm sure BT had the best network. We went out to the Maginot Line and around those areas (I got some Belgian networks ) and also to the Loire Valley....there were a few spots where I only had BT. If not, it was BT/Orange, or BT/SFR. Orange was by far the worst...and it seems everyone had them too.

I think SFR started out as 900 only, and I think they use both, 900 and 1800 in cities and urban areas now. It's really strange how your usage shows BT to be the best network. Traveling throughout the country(a lot of times on my way to my appartment in Spain) I traveled through some of the most rural places in France and SFR always they are. I have to admit, though, that a spot in mountainous, rurseemed to have covered me just fine, even in areas that didn't have BT, some areas didn't even have Orange. Don't get me wrong, I have no interest whatsoever in SFR, not trying to make them sound better thanal French Alps that was never covered by BT(SFR only) had coverage from all providers when I last made my trip there(was about four years ago at 4 in the morning).
~Andy
P.S. Not judging by a SMS the provider sends me, but SFR Welcome SMS always stated something like "Welcome to SFR in France, the best mobile phone network in the country...".
I mean AT&T, now Cingular sends me "Welcome to Cingular Wireless and the USA, the wireless carrier America trusts..."
Airb, how did you like getting those welcome SMS anytime you registered on a different network?

[ShoresGuy]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

True-and also, unlike the original, most used 900 carriers that have started adding 1800 for capacity reasons, carriers that started out with 1800 only don't really have those problems.
Have you ever really had capacity issues in Germany/U.K.? I haven't.

Nope, I've never had major issues with E-Plus except during New Year's when everyone tries to send Happy New Year greetings at the stroke of midnight .

Originally Posted by Airb330

We went out to the Maginot Line and around those areas (I got some Belgian networks ) and also to the Loire Valley....

Namely those would be BASE, Proximus and Mobistar .