How is VM retrieval number stored on the phone?

[Telekom]

Separated from

http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/at...ing-calls.html (Incoming calls)

Originally Posted by RadioFoneGuy

If you call your own number to hit voicemail it will show up as an incoming call from yourself.

I buy phones all the time that are unlocked and dont have the default voicemail so I used to just call my self, and thats how its looks on your bill when you do.

Whether you have a locked or unlocked phone has no bearing on voicemail. If pressing 1 doesn't work it's only because you haven't programmed it. If you meant that you do not use your carrier's voice mail that's another matter entirely.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by Telekom

Whether you have a locked or unlocked phone has no bearing on voicemail. If pressing 1 doesn't work it's only because you haven't programmed it. If you meant that you do not use your carrier's voice mail that's another matter entirely.

Locked/unlocked doesn't matter indeed, but branding does. For example on my Nokia 6131 there's a bit in the hidden settings that I can toggle which will result in the phone either reading or not the VM access number from the SIM. If I set it to "branded", I don't need to program the phone, it'll just read the data from the SIM and call the right VM access number. If I set it to "unbranded", the phone ignores the SIM data and I have to program the number manually. Of course that means that when I switch SIMs the programmed number stays the same and VM doesn't work.

[efparri]

You mean that the phone fetches the Voicemail Number from the carrier based upon the telephone number on the SIM card. No Voicemail Numbers are stored on the SIM card.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by efparri

You mean that the phone fetches the Voicemail Number from the carrier based upon the telephone number on the SIM card. No Voicemail Numbers are stored on the SIM card.

No, I mean that the phone reads it off the SIM card itself — I've tested this with long-expired SIMs that don't allow the phone to register on the network, as well as some foreign SIMs that didn't have roaming enabled.

P.S. BTW, at one time I had stored the VM access password as part of the VM access number. Password moved around with the SIM, too.

[efparri]

Originally Posted by dmapr

No, I mean that the phone reads it off the SIM card itself — I've tested this with long-expired SIMs that don't allow the phone to register on the network, as well as some foreign SIMs that didn't have roaming enabled.

P.S. BTW, at one time I had stored the VM access password as part of the VM access number. Password moved around with the SIM, too.

You gave a completely different answer in this thread:
Actual voice mail number - Voice Mail - Wireless Forums from AT&T
If the voicemail number is stored on the SIM card ab initio, it should be accessible regardless of the phone that you are using. In reality, the voicemail number and the Short Message Service Center Number are programmed over the air the first time you connect to the network. Once the number is retrieved, it is persistent because it is then written to the SIM card.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by efparri

You gave a completely different answer in this thread:
Actual voice mail number - Voice Mail - Wireless Forums from AT&T
If the voicemail number is stored on the SIM card ab initio, it should be accessible regardless of the phone that you are using. In reality, the voicemail number and the Short Message Service Center Number are programmed over the air the first time you connect to the network. Once the number is retrieved, it is persistent because it is then written to the SIM card.

Here's the quote from my post on AT&T forums:

If you put your SIM into any AT&T phone you will be able to see the VM access number (it's stored on the SIM card). You can then program it into your unlocked phone. If you're using the Nokias in your profile, you can also set the phone to read that number from the SIM with the use of special tools, like JAF, but they're not cheap.

Could you please tell me how it is different from what I was saying here? AT&T-branded phones read the VM number off the SIM card. Unbranded phones (which are being commonly referred to as "unlocked", although those concepts should not be used interchangeably) often do not. I don't know much about the way it's handled in other phones, Nokia phone profiles have a bit called CSP that determines (among other things) whether the phone will read the number off the SIM or not. So, I have done the following using unlocked AT&T-branded Nokia 3120 and unlocked unbranded Nokia 6131:

1. Put my AT&T SIM into 3120 — VM number shows AT&T VM number
2. Put my T-Mobile SIM into 3120 — VM number shows T-Mobile VM
3. Put AT&T SIM into 6131 — VM number is empty
4. Put T-Mobile number into 6131 — VM number is empty
5. Program T-Mobile VM number into the phone
6. Put AT&T SIM into the phone — VM number displays T-Mobile number

Notice that at this point T-Mobile VM number is permanently stored in the 6131 memory. Out comes JAF, I tweak the CSP bit and put AT&T SIM into the phone — it shows AT&T VM number. I tweak the bit back — the phone shows T-Mobile VM number.

[Charlyee]

Originally Posted by dmapr

Could you please tell me how it is different from what I was saying here?

Hmm! It sure appears to me that you said the same thing in both forums, but then again I am not the one that was questioning or had any doubts about it

Thanks for the explanation with examples, that should be a great help.
Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

[efparri]

Originally Posted by dmapr

Here's the quote from my post on AT&T forums:


Could you please tell me how it is different from what I was saying here? AT&T-branded phones read the VM number off the SIM card. Unbranded phones (which are being commonly referred to as "unlocked", although those concepts should not be used interchangeably) often do not. I don't know much about the way it's handled in other phones, Nokia phone profiles have a bit called CSP that determines (among other things) whether the phone will read the number off the SIM or not. So, I have done the following using unlocked AT&T-branded Nokia 3120 and unlocked unbranded Nokia 6131:

1. Put my AT&T SIM into 3120 — VM number shows AT&T VM number
2. Put my T-Mobile SIM into 3120 — VM number shows T-Mobile VM
   
3. Put AT&T SIM into 6131 — VM number is empty
   
4. Put T-Mobile number into 6131 — VM number is empty
5. Program T-Mobile VM number into the phone
6. Put AT&T SIM into the phone — VM number displays T-Mobile number

Notice that at this point T-Mobile VM number is permanently stored in the 6131 memory. Out comes JAF, I tweak the CSP bit and put AT&T SIM into the phone — it shows AT&T VM number. I tweak the bit back — the phone shows T-Mobile VM number.

If the voicemail number is stored on the SIM card, any phone should be able to retrieve it.. If the voicemail number is in the SIM card, the phone's memory should require no programming. The phone's programming only ties the number to the Quick Dial "1" position.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by efparri

If the voicemail number is stored on the SIM card, any phone should be able to retrieve it.. If the voicemail number is in the SIM card, the phone's memory should require no programming. The phone's programming only ties the number to the Quick Dial "1" position.

It's just like saying that any phone should be able to allow you to select network manually. Yet AT&T-branded phone with AT&T-branded SIM will not. AT&T-branded phone with non-AT&T SIM will allow it. Unbranded phone with AT&T SIM may or may not follow this restriction imposed by the SIM — and in case of Nokia that very much depends on the setting of that CSP bit. I could continue with these examples, but I think it would be best for you to try it yourself — nothing like personal experience in these matters

[efparri]

Originally Posted by dmapr

It's just like saying that any phone should be able to allow you to select network manually. Yet AT&T-branded phone with AT&T-branded SIM will not. AT&T-branded phone with non-AT&T SIM will allow it. Unbranded phone with AT&T SIM may or may not follow this restriction imposed by the SIM — and in case of Nokia that very much depends on the setting of that CSP bit. I could continue with these examples, but I think it would be best for you to try it yourself — nothing like personal experience in these matters

How does the iPhone use a different voicemail number if what you say is correct? The iPhone would be forced to use the same dialup voicemail retrieval system as all other AT&T phones if the voicemail number is hard coded into the SIM card.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by efparri

How does the iPhone use a different voicemail number if what you say is correct? The iPhone would be forced to use the same dialup voicemail retrieval system as all other AT&T phones if the voicemail number is hard coded into the SIM card.

Where did iPhone come from? I don't know much about iPhone's relationship with VM except that is has visual voicemail which is different from what other phones are using. I've never seen anyone dialing a VM access number with the iPhone, they just play the downloaded message off their phone. Once the VM notification arrives to your phone you don't even have to have cell network available to listen to it. We have just experimented with one by leaving a VM, putting it into airplane mode and listening to the VM — worked like a charm. Try listening to a VM on your Tilt when it's in airplane mode and let us know how it goes.

[efparri]

Originally Posted by dmapr

Where did iPhone come from? I don't know much about iPhone's relationship with VM except that is has visual voicemail which is different from what other phones are using. I've never seen anyone dialing a VM access number with the iPhone, they just play the downloaded message off their phone. Once the VM notification arrives to your phone you don't even have to have cell network available to listen to it. We have just experimented with one by leaving a VM, putting it into airplane mode and listening to the VM — worked like a charm. Try listening to a VM on your Tilt when it's in airplane mode and let us know how it goes.

Calls have to be forwarded to to the Voicemail Deposit number when the called phone is unreachable, busy or unanswered. Tis number is paired with the Voicemaile Retrieval Number, which is what is linked to the "1" key in the Quick Dial list. The iPhone uses a different Voicemail pair of numbers from the other phones used on the AT&T network. In fact, before you first setup the iPhone's Voicemail, you are advised to retrieve all messages from your regular voicemail numbers. Those messages will be lost when you use the Visual Voicemail of the iPhone.
This is one line from the voicemail instructions for the RAZR V3, a common handset:

View or edit the Mailbox Retrieval number.
Note: To add a pause (P), press and hold the asterisk (*) button on the keypad for one second. If the Voice Mail Retrieval number is unknown contact Customer Care for the users local number or to have programming sent to the device.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by efparri

Calls have to be forwarded to to the Voicemail Deposit number when the called phone is unreachable, busy or unanswered. Tis number is paired with the Voicemaile Retrieval Number, which is what is linked to the "1" key in the Quick Dial list. The iPhone uses a different Voicemail pair of numbers from the other phones used on the AT&T network. In fact, before you first setup the iPhone's Voicemail, you are advised to retrieve all messages from your regular voicemail numbers. Those messages will be lost when you use the Visual Voicemail of the iPhone.
This is one line from the voicemail instructions for the RAZR V3, a common handset:

View or edit the Mailbox Retrieval number.
Note: To add a pause (P), press and hold the asterisk (*) button on the keypad for one second. If the Voice Mail Retrieval number is unknown contact Customer Care for the users local number or to have programming sent to the device.

These must be AT&T V3 instructions, which I don't find relevant at all, considering I was talking about unbranded devices. Here's what the official Motorola user's guide for V3 has to say on the subject:

Your phone may prompt you to store your voicemail phone number. If you don’t know your voicemail number, contact your service provider.
Note: You can’t store a p (pause), w (wait), or n (number) character in this number. If you want to store a voicemail number with these characters, create a phonebook entry for it. Then, you can use the entry to call your voicemail.

This only goes to illustrate the point that there may be a difference between how branded and unbranded devices handle this.

[RadioRaiders]

Altho the VM number is stored on the SIM card:

4.2.60 EFMBDN (Mailbox Dialling Numbers)
If service n°47 is "available", this file shall be present.
This EF contains dialling numbers to access mailboxes associated with Voicemail, Fax, Electronic Mail and other messages. It may also contain associated alpha-tags for each supported mailbox. Each dialling number shall be associated with a message waiting indication group type using EFMBI (see TS 23.038 [5] for message waiting indication group types).

more info here

....really it's nothing that different than any other contact number stored in your phone/SIM. And it depends on how the phone interacts with the SIM (ie: the phones software). If the phone is "branded" by one operators software, then it's probablly set up in favor of that operator (ie: has the VM number not only in the SIM, but could also be written in the phone itsself). If a phone is "unbranded" then either you have to set up the VM number yourself, or the phone may read it from the SIM card itsself.

Anyway, I don't think there's any "hard and fast" rules that apply to this topic. It varies by phone.
eg: when I move my SIM card from one phone to another, sometimes the phone asks if I want to copy my contact numbers from my SIM to the phone. Sometimes the phone doesn't ask this. I think the VM number is similar.