So, who will be getting a Palm Pre?

[Yankees368]

Originally Posted by viewfly

yeah so it is not really clear to me how you would use GPS navigation with google browsing since you are not lIkely to have wifi in your car then. Works great for armchair driving I suppose.

And it's not a great idea to be doing all things while driving anyway.

Tom Tom is being approved in the Appl store now. It will have turn by turn. Plus the new iphone will have text to spoken for all if it's functions for the visually impaired.
But back on point; I was just correcting Annie's article because the examples were not correct about what the iPhone cannot do. I was not commenting on the Pre's multi tasking. But seriously the most useful multi tasking are phone calling + data retrieval (web, contacts, calendar) all of which exists in the iPhone from day one.

Yeah, that review was pretty lacking.
However, you are incorrect about using navigation and google browsing at once. The limitation only applies during phone calls, not any other use. So you can absolutely use navigation, at the same time as the web.
Also, several times I have made and recieved phone calls with in navigation, as the program uses map data already downloaded, and simply moves you along with the GPS signal.

(one more thing, was the original iphone able to do calls+data at the same time? I thought that was 3g only?)

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Yankees368

Yeah, that review was pretty lacking.
However, you are incorrect about using navigation and google browsing at once. The limitation only applies during phone calls, not any other use. So you can absolutely use navigation, at the same time as the web.
Also, several times I have made and recieved phone calls with in navigation, as the program uses map data already downloaded, and simply moves you along with the GPS signal.

(one more thing, was the original iphone able to do calls+data at the same time? I thought that was 3g only?)

I mean the 3G that came out one year ago. I never considered buying the 2G because of price and lack of 3G. Hey even my mother's free phone has 3G (AT&T voice + data)!

In 2G mode my iPhone behaves like your Pre. With wifi on calls plus data can be done. With wifi off, gps can be used with the downloadedO maps and the gps will track you until the map needs to be refreshed, while you are on a call.

I didn't post to make this a pissing contest between the two phones. I didn't demean the Pre in my OP, only pointed out the errors with Annie's amateur review.

[Yankees368]

Originally Posted by viewfly

I mean the 3G that came out one year ago. I never considered buying the 2G because of price and lack of 3G. Hey even my mother's free phone has 3G (AT&T voice + data)!

In 2G mode my iPhone behaves like your Pre. With wifi on calls plus data can be done. With wifi off, gps can be used with the downloadedO maps and the gps will track you until the map needs to be refreshed, while you are on a call.

I didn't post to make this a pissing contest between the two phones. I didn't demean the Pre in my OP, only pointed out the errors with Annie's amateur review.

i know, i just like to squabble with iphone owners, lol. its all in good fun.

[Charlyee]

Originally Posted by Yankees368

i know, i just like to squabble with iphone owners, lol. its all in good fun.

You certainly picked the right person to "squable" with; viewfly has an internal alarm that goes off everytime iPhone is mentioned.

As for reviews, for once I would like to see an unbiased review of just the Pre not compared to the iPhone or anything else. For one thing, to me it is somewhat meaningless to compare a CDMA device with a GSM device due to the inherent differences like the simultaneous voice & data.

Having said that, where is that detailed review you have been promising?

Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

[Yankees368]

Originally Posted by Charlyee

You certainly picked the right person to "squable" with; viewfly has an internal alarm that goes off everytime iPhone is mentioned.

As for reviews, for once I would like to see an unbiased review of just the Pre not compared to the iPhone or anything else. For one thing, to me it is somewhat meaningless to compare a CDMA device with a GSM device due to the inherent differences like the simultaneous voice & data.

Having said that, where is that detailed review you have been promising?

Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

i agree, I hate to see the iphone brought up in every single pre review, but in this case, i guess it is warranted. The pre was designed by the ex-head of the ipod dept., and does mimic a lot of its features.

Anyway, my review will be coming eventually. And hey, I even picked up one of those wireless touchstone chargers for the pre.

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Charlyee

You certainly picked the right person to "squable" with; viewfly has an internal alarm that goes off everytime iPhone is mentioned.

]

Actually, I think "there is an App for That"

[Charlyee]

Originally Posted by viewfly

Actually, I think "there is an App for That"

Touche'

Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Charlyee

As for reviews, for once I would like to see an unbiased review of just the Pre not compared to the iPhone or anything else. For one thing, to me it is somewhat meaningless to compare a CDMA device with a GSM device due to the inherent differences like the simultaneous voice & data.

Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

Not to hijack the tread, but you do bring up an interesting point, that is coming out in the prior discussions. A GSM UTMS 3G Pre version (aka ATT type), is decidedly more useful that a plain CDMA Pre. Without the ability (assuming now that one has no wifi access) to simultaneously do voice and data, the 'multi-tasking' of the Pre is limited.

1 With no Voice +Data, there is no multitasking for continuing with a call (on speaker) and retrieving data from the web (i.e. restaurant info, blah, blah, blah). That is quite useful when having a conversation and needing to look up something.

2 Without being in a phone call, can one retrieve data from the web while listening to a data streaming service like Pandora? (Yankee, can that be done? I think you say 'yes' but I wasn't clear if wifi was on at the time). Does it get interrupted for a bit? Basically can two cellular needy appl be running at the same time?

3 Multi tasking between appls that don't use cellular data is cool, I admit. For example, working on a Word document and then pulling up photoshop appl. In the iPhone case, that means closing one app and opening the other. Some appls remember where you left off, others do not. So that would be useful.

But most of my appl are data needy. So running ebay and fandango, each would need to share the data stream from the cellular link. That would be ok, as they may not pull data at the same time. Pandora, AOL, fandango or pulling stock quotes would be different however. In the iPhone, one can run the iPod ok with any appl (mail, web,etc) , but not Pandora. It just closes.

So you are right Charlyee, it is an unfair comparison to make between a 3G GSM and CDMA device.

[Yankees368]

Originally Posted by viewfly

Not to hijack the tread, but you do bring up an interesting point, that is coming out in the prior discussions. A GSM UTMS 3G Pre version (aka ATT type), is decidedly more useful that a plain CDMA Pre. Without the ability (assuming now that one has no wifi access) to simultaneously do voice and data, the 'multi-tasking' of the Pre is limited.

1 With no Voice +Data, there is no multitasking for continuing with a call (on speaker) and retrieving data from the web (i.e. restaurant info, blah, blah, blah). That is quite useful when having a conversation and needing to look up something.

2 Without being in a phone call, can one retrieve data from the web while listening to a data streaming service like Pandora? (Yankee, can that be done? I think you say 'yes' but I wasn't clear if wifi was on at the time). Does it get interrupted for a bit? Basically can two cellular needy appl be running at the same time?

3 Multi tasking between appls that don't use cellular data is cool, I admit. For example, working on a Word document and then pulling up photoshop appl. In the iPhone case, that means closing one app and opening the other. Some appls remember where you left off, others do not. So that would be useful.

But most of my appl are data needy. So running ebay and fandango, each would need to share the data stream from the cellular link. That would be ok, as they may not pull data at the same time. Pandora, AOL, fandango or pulling stock quotes would be different however. In the iPhone, one can run the iPod ok with any appl (mail, web,etc) , but not Pandora. It just closes.

So you are right Charlyee, it is an unfair comparison to make between a 3G GSM and CDMA device.

As with all CDMA devices, the pre may not make calls and use data without wifi at the same time. Honestly, this is not a big deal for me. The younger generation texts WAY more than they call, so its not even much of a problem. In the 2 years that I had windows mobile devices that were capable of multi-tasking, I think I used wifi to browse while on a call one time. Worse comes to worse, you hang up, look up the info, and text it out or call back.
On to your questions:

2. You can run as many apps that need data as you would like. Like I said for last weekend, I was running pandora in the background, while also running telenav which was downloading maps and text-to-speach directions. You can run as many apps as you would like, and they will all share the bandwidth.

3. Having apps stay put while multitasking is nice. I can listen to pandora, open google maps to find a business, text out the info i found in google, check the weather at that location, and so on and so on without closing anything (well, until you run out of RAM)

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Yankees368

As with all CDMA devices, the pre may not make calls and use data without wifi at the same time. Honestly, this is not a big deal for me. The younger generation texts WAY more than they call, so its not even much of a problem. In the 2 years that I had windows mobile devices that were capable of multi-tasking, I think I used wifi to browse while on a call one time. Worse comes to worse, you hang up, look up the info, and text it out or call back.
On to your questions:

2. You can run as many apps that need data as you would like. Like I said for last weekend, I was running pandora in the background, while also running telenav which was downloading maps and text-to-speach directions. You can run as many apps as you would like, and they will all share the bandwidth.

3. Having apps stay put while multitasking is nice. I can listen to pandora, open google maps to find a business, text out the info i found in google, check the weather at that location, and so on and so on without closing anything (well, until you run out of RAM)

Being able to run Pandora (or I assume AOL Radio,FM Tuner, etc) at the same time as Google, Web browsing, etc, is very nice. I cannot do that. It certainly is not due to lack of bandwidth, but how the iPhone OS treats non native appls. If I substitute 'iPod' for Pandora in your examples above, then I have the same functionality, i.e. listening to music, audiobooks, while browsing, GPS'ing, etc. For me that is working fine, and since the iPod function is a very low battery drain (20hrs vs cellular/wifi Pandora streaming), it's a good option. Still, I wish that my BoA application wouldn't reset when I close it for example. I hope someday, but it not too big a deal here.

Thanks for the information, Yankee

As far as data + voice and the 'younger generation' using texting, well, that may be true among friends, but I can't think of a business client or vendor that would text me vs a phone call. And being able to maintain the conversation while I look up his/her email, my calendar or check some web page is a very useful business and personal function. I assume AnnieNYC (from the blog) is a young gal, and seems enthralled with that feature.

Hey, come to think of it, that wasn't a 'old guy' sarcastic remark in my direction was it?

[Yankees368]

Originally Posted by viewfly

Hey, come to think of it, that wasn't a 'old guy' sarcastic remark in my direction was it?

character minimum

[OddBall]

I've been examining the iPhone for quite a while now but 2 nagging issues will always prevent me from purchasing one.

A: The battery

B: AT&T

I live in a rural area of Northern VA and AT&T's coverage, voice or data is non-existent whereas Sprint/VZW has 3G/EV-DO coverage. I admire the iPhone for it's aesthetic qualities and it's UI but those 2 issues will be show-stoppers for me.

FYI, I don't care if one can disassemble the iPhone and manage to replace the battery. Currently, every phone I have ever owned, and this goes back 22+ years, have had a simple cover which hides an easily replaced battery. My job demands I have a working phone 24/7 so as much as I might like the iPhone thats the ultimate reason behind not getting one.

I'm still waiting for the Pre to arrive at the local Sprint store. So far I like what I see.

[OddBall]

Well, the Pre arrived Thursday and after the hassles of porting 4 MDN's over from VZW i've now had a couple of days to test drive the phone.

My impressions are:

A: Nicely weighted phone. I'm from the old school that likes the flip style phones because they feel like you're talking into something and tend to not talk as loud. However, I

B: I downloaded a few apps and all look nice on the phone. The biggest hassle was Pocket Mirror to synch my Outlook Calendar and contacts. I do NOT want to synch my work email as I receive 2000+ per day The MS .net framework install took a while but it's done and I have the Calendar and contact sync I needed. Why didn't Palm make this work without a separate app?

C: Pandora. I love it. I have XM/Sirius which sucks mightily. I won't go into details about the level of suck they generate but...I need my dose of comedy and they provide it. I did a test yesterday by loading Pandora in an area where we were sure to have good coverage. I streamed music all the way home down back roads where the previous VZW phone would have never handled it much less a simple voice call. I've used it on another back road excursion early this morning and other than some slowness loading the next song it works very well and it's plugged into my aux jack. Quality isn't bad but the music is tinny and compressed. Thankfully I can turn up the sub-woofer.

D: Multi-tasking is not a big deal for me but I did notice some serious lag with Pandora and opening the dialer or Calendar apps. However, they work and other than slowness there is no instability.


Finally, the biggest impression for me, over and above the usefulness of this device is the visual appeal of the display. In a word; excellent. I was concerned about the relative size of the display but the sharpness and clarity more than make up for it.

For me, and thats all that matters Palm scored a direct hit with this device. Sure, there are a couple of things they could fix such as no video recorder (software changes should fix that) and the copy/paste feature but too many other things outweigh the little items and I will give them time to fix them since Sprint will have me as a customer for a long long time.

I wish I had purchased a new 3GS and tested it out on the back roads and environment I live in but I was already carrying an account with 5 devices on VZW and a SE plan on Sprint. However, I know the iPhone wouldn't have decent coverage where I live.

My biggest and absolutely most annoying pet peeve with VZW pertains to their desire to release lackluster phones. AT&T and Sprint have two killers on the market now but I think Sprint's reputation has been heavily damaged due to their awful CS and odd marketing campaign. (read: non existent)

I could keep going on but no need to. I like this phone, a lot...

Goodbye VZW you won't be missed.

[larry]

Originally Posted by OddBall

AT&T and Sprint have two killers on the market now but I think Sprint's reputation has been heavily damaged due to their awful CS and odd marketing campaign. (read: non existent)

That's starting to change now. When was the last time you saw Sprint being criticized for bad customer service? It's much improved now. In fact Sprint is getting some good publicity latetly by winning the JD Power award for the Western Region as well as coming in either first or second in data speeds and reliability tests conducted nationwide. Of course the Pre has also helped them towards a rebound.

[OddBall]

Originally Posted by larry

That's starting to change now. When was the last time you saw Sprint being criticized for bad customer service? It's much improved now. In fact Sprint is getting some good publicity latetly by winning the JD Power award for the Western Region as well as coming in either first or second in data speeds and reliability tests conducted nationwide. Of course the Pre has also helped them towards a rebound.

Yep, I've noticed Pre ads on national TV as well. I can attest to their data coverage, at least where I live, I am getting over 1mb/sec down on my aircard vs 35-400kb/sec at best on VZW's aircard. These are essentially identical aircards. Not to mention the phone works fine at home now.

I even streamed Pandora all the way down the back roads the other day and while slow to load the next song it never buffered once.


I'm happy with it. I have a few issues with the phone but they are minor. I'll post about it soon.

[TnA2xXtReM]

I first wanted it, about to buy it off Craigslist for ~$400 and risking not activating it on SERO, but then blushes it aside when I saw the HTC Touch Pro2 The Pre does look a little bit cute to its design, but I don't know about the texting on its keyboard. Other than that, I'm happy on TP1 after I flashed it to a custom ROM until the TP2 comes out. Had the TP1 on release date, let see if I'm able to get the TP2 on release date as well

[Gottachase]

I just tried out the Pré and loved it!!!!!! It was one of the best phones I have ever test drove. I do have one question, couldn't sprint make a GSM version considering how nextel was GSM? If only I could buy a plan... I would switch to sprint and get the Pré.

[Yankees368]

Originally Posted by Gottachase

I just tried out the Pré and loved it!!!!!! It was one of the best phones I have ever test drove. I do have one question, couldn't sprint make a GSM version considering how nextel was GSM? If only I could buy a plan... I would switch to sprint and get the Pré.

Nextel actually uses iDen, which is special only to motorola. You will never see the pre on iDen.

[Scrumhalf]

Originally Posted by Gottachase

I just tried out the Pré and loved it!!!!!! It was one of the best phones I have ever test drove. I do have one question, couldn't sprint make a GSM version considering how nextel was GSM? If only I could buy a plan... I would switch to sprint and get the Pré.

iDEN is technically TDMA. So is GSM. So, iDEN and GSM are from the same family tree but are not the same, kinda like apes and humans....

[Gottachase]

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

iDEN is technically TDMA. So is GSM. So, iDEN and GSM are from the same family tree but are not the same, kinda like apes and humans....

Thanks for clearing that up...and you too yankees368

[Yankees368]

Originally Posted by Scrumhalf

iDEN is technically TDMA. So is GSM. So, iDEN and GSM are from the same family tree but are not the same, kinda like apes and humans....

lol, if you MUST dive into the details, yes, iDen is just like TDMA. Like you said kinda like apes and humans, only 3% DNA difference. That 3% makes a big difference.
iDen is a dead technology (or, should be dead), as it's max data throughput (excluding wi-den, which is no longer used) is like 14.4 kbps.
I cannot imagine a pre on that network, hahaha.

[AnthroMatt]

It could be like the Curve for Nextel...you don't need fast data for email. You need it for multimedia though. That's why the Nextel Curve has WiFi and the CDMA models do not.

Still, I don't think there would ever be enough demand for an iDEN Pre to warrant even considering it's development. Sprint and Palm are struggling to sell the CDMA model as it is.

[Fire14]

Originally Posted by AnthroMatt

It could be like the Curve for Nextel...you don't need fast data for email. You need it for multimedia though. That's why the Nextel Curve has WiFi and the CDMA models do not.

Still, I don't think there would ever be enough demand for an iDEN Pre to warrant even considering it's development. Sprint and Palm are struggling to sell the CDMA model as it is.

Just curious I have been hearing reports of people returning the pre and not happy with it, I do know 1 guy at work has it & loves it, and as you said AnthroMatt they are having a hard time selling them.
Is it a Palm issue? I haven't tried it yet to see if it would be worth a try in the future.

[AnthroMatt]

Originally Posted by Fire14

Just curious I have been hearing reports of people returning the pre and not happy with it, I do know 1 guy at work has it & loves it, and as you said AnthroMatt they are having a hard time selling them.
Is it a Palm issue? I haven't tried it yet to see if it would be worth a try in the future.

The three major complaints I have heard re: the Pre are that there is a lack of 3rd party apps, that people cannot get used to the keyboard, and that the build quality on some of them leaves a lot to be desired.

As far as actually performing as a phone and communications tool, I think the Pre is generally well regarded. And there may be more apps out there now, I don't know...since I do not have the phone I don't follow that too much.

[Fire14]

Thanks, I wasn't sure about the keyboard & the curve of the phone as well, as for the apps that's a biggie when it's suppose to compete against the iPhone.