why did europe have GSM only

[scotsboyuk]

Originally Posted by KyleAndMelissa22

SIMs could be blocked I believe on US networks, but thats just accessing a network,

the memory is saved on the SIM, and anyone who gets a hold of the SIM
still has access to personal info stored on the SIM, at least thats what I think....

I don't think a carrier can send out a signal to delete personal info stored on a SIM card.

I'm not sure about whether the information is still accessible once it has been blocked. That's an interesting question, does anyone know if that is the case? I'll try and find out myself.

[spleck]

Originally Posted by scotsboyuk

I'm not sure about whether the information is still accessible once it has been blocked. That's an interesting question, does anyone know if that is the case? I'll try and find out myself.

You can read the data on a SIM from a non-networked SIM reader. I don't consider phone numbers too sensitive though. My problem with SIMs is that you can't save "contacts", just a name and a phone number. I end up storing contacts on the phone rather than the SIM to keep all the additional information.

[Telekom]

Originally Posted by spleck

You can read the data on a SIM from a non-networked SIM reader. I don't consider phone numbers too sensitive though. My problem with SIMs is that you can't save "contacts", just a name and a phone number. I end up storing contacts on the phone rather than the SIM to keep all the additional information.

That's a limitation of SIMs.

[RadioFoneGuy]

I have done quite a bit of SIM card reading lately as a hobby and troubleshooting and theres not to much personal info unless you store the contacts on the SIM. Regardless if a CDMA or GSM phone gets stolen they can still look at your Contacts and WAP settings ETC.

Every GSM has a IMSI number that can be blocked as well as black listing the IMEI number which is basically the same as the ESN on CDMA phones.

Most of the info on the SIM is Network related.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by spleck

You can read the data on a SIM from a non-networked SIM reader. I don't consider phone numbers too sensitive though. My problem with SIMs is that you can't save "contacts", just a name and a phone number. I end up storing contacts on the phone rather than the SIM to keep all the additional information.

3G phones can store multiple numbers per contact on the SIM card and can also save email adresses if the SIM is 3G.

Originally Posted by RadioFoneGuy

I have done quite a bit of SIM card reading lately as a hobby and troubleshooting and theres not to much personal info unless you store the contacts on the SIM. Regardless if a CDMA or GSM phone gets stolen they can still look at your Contacts and WAP settings ETC.

Every GSM has a IMSI number that can be blocked as well as black listing the IMEI number which is basically the same as the ESN on CDMA phones.

Most of the info on the SIM is Network related.

AT&T doesn't blacklist IMEI numbers — don't know about T-Mobile.

[Telekom]

Originally Posted by RadioFoneGuy

I have done quite a bit of SIM card reading lately as a hobby and troubleshooting and theres not to much personal info unless you store the contacts on the SIM. Regardless if a CDMA or GSM phone gets stolen they can still look at your Contacts and WAP settings ETC.

Every GSM has a IMSI number that can be blocked as well as black listing the IMEI number which is basically the same as the ESN on CDMA phones.

Most of the info on the SIM is Network related.

Don't forget that SIMs have a PIN which you can enable to protect your data as well.

[Telekom]

Originally Posted by dmapr

3G phones can store multiple numbers per contact on the SIM card and can also save email adresses if the SIM is 3G.



AT&T doesn't blacklist IMEI numbers — don't know about T-Mobile.

No US carrier blacklists IMEI's.

[spleck]

Originally Posted by dmapr

3G phones can store multiple numbers per contact on the SIM card and can also save email adresses if the SIM is 3G.

That doesn't help me. My wife has a T-Mobile Wing, plus she stores all the home and work addresses. Technically, 3G is not GSM, its the UMTS replacement.

[RadioRaiders]

Originally Posted by Telekom

As far as "not willing to adopt" another example is billing. Many carriers in Europe bill to the exact second and start billing after the person answers as opposed to send-to-end billing and full minute rounding as carriers do here. It's a leftover tradition from the analog AMPS days. It's to the carrier's advantage to round to full minutes and use send-to-end billing.

In the US you get "buckets" of 400 minutes per month or whatever, and most people don't even use them all, so rounding to the next minute isn't that big of a deal (except in pre-paid cases, where I think they do bill to the second even in the USA). In Europe, it's more of a pay-as-you-go system, so it probably makes more sense to bill to the second.

Originally Posted by scotsboyuk

Don't American networks block SIM cards? In the UK if you loose your handset you ring your network and they will block your SIM card and your phone so that neither can be used on any network in the UK. The network then send you out a new SIM card with your same number that you can pop into a new handset.

I'm not at all sure why people steal phones here to be honest, once they're reported as stolen they're essentially paperweights.

I'm pretty sure if you report your phone as stolen to ANY operator, they will block your SIM from any network access, because once you report it stolen, any calls after that is the responsibility of the carrier, and not the customer.

Blocking the IMEI (the phone's serial number) is a different story, some countries do, some don't. But that won't affect billing. Also, stealing phones is big $ to organized crime groups. They re-flash the IMEI or just re-sell them in East European countries where operators don't block IMEI.

[scotsboyuk]

Originally Posted by RadioRaiders

In the US you get "buckets" of 400 minutes per month or whatever, and most people don't even use them all, so rounding to the next minute isn't that big of a deal (except in pre-paid cases, where I think they do bill to the second even in the USA). In Europe, it's more of a pay-as-you-go system, so it probably makes more sense to bill to the second.

The same is true in some European countries, you get an allowance of minutes that you may never use up. Your second point is interesting though; around 70% of the UK market is PAYG so that could be a strong factor in per second billing. Mind you, there has always been per second billing as far as I can remember so perhaps it is just the done thing?

Blocking the IMEI (the phone's serial number) is a different story, some countries do, some don't. But that won't affect billing. Also, stealing phones is big $ to organized crime groups. They re-flash the IMEI or just re-sell them in East European countries where operators don't block IMEI.

I think I remember hearing some rumblings about a pan-European system to block IMEIs on all European networks. That would certainly be a good move, and one wonders why it hasn't happened yet.

[Barciurek]

Originally Posted by scotsboyuk

The same is true in some European countries, you get an allowance of minutes that you may never use up. Your second point is interesting though; around 70% of the UK market is PAYG so that could be a strong factor in per second billing. Mind you, there has always been per second billing as far as I can remember so perhaps it is just the done thing?

You're right a lot of people over there use PAYG and a lot of them keep it inactive so they can just receive a call or an SMS...
I know over there I call a lot just for 10 secs so per second billing is very important.

And every operator will block your sim from use no matter what country it is.
I know for one most of European carriers pre-programme your pin code and they give it to you and it's not just a 1234 or something default., it's a regular pin code.

[dmapr]

Originally Posted by RadioRaiders

In the US you get "buckets" of 400 minutes per month or whatever, and most people don't even use them all, so rounding to the next minute isn't that big of a deal (except in pre-paid cases, where I think they do bill to the second even in the USA). In Europe, it's more of a pay-as-you-go system, so it probably makes more sense to bill to the second.

I only have experience with AT&T & T-Mobile prepaid solutions in USA and both round up to the next minute — no per second billing. My Russian prepaid had an interesting choice — I could go with per-second billing and pay higher per-minute rate or pay lower per-minute rate and get a combo billing: up to a minute is billed as a full minute, everything above is billed per second. Later they switched to a plan that does per-minute billing at much lower rate (all prepaid plans).

Originally Posted by Barciurek

You're right a lot of people over there use PAYG and a lot of them keep it inactive so they can just receive a call or an SMS...
I know over there I call a lot just for 10 secs so per second billing is very important.

And every operator will block your sim from use no matter what country it is.
I know for one most of European carriers pre-programme your pin code and they give it to you and it's not just a 1234 or something default., it's a regular pin code.

Not only do they give you the PIN, they also give you the PUK right away. Some cards give you PIN2 & PUK2 as well.

[Telekom]

Originally Posted by scotsboyuk

The same is true in some European countries, you get an allowance of minutes that you may never use up. Your second point is interesting though; around 70% of the UK market is PAYG so that could be a strong factor in per second billing. Mind you, there has always been per second billing as far as I can remember so perhaps it is just the done thing?
.

It's always to the carrier's advantage to go to full minute increment billing as well as to have "send-to-end" billing.