Prolonging battery life

[daleh]

My Motorola is showing "Invalid Battery" on a rather new non factory replacement battery. Just started showing after a few months of use. Won't charge up anymore. Any suggestions?

[Jay2TheRescue]

I only use genuine Motorola batteries. I have nothing but problems with aftermarket stuff. Buy a genuine Moto battery and it will stop. Even if they don't report as invalid aftermarket batteries usually don't last as long as the OEM ones do anyway.

[Fire14]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I only use genuine Motorola batteries. I have nothing but problems with aftermarket stuff. Buy a genuine Moto battery and it will stop. Even if they don't report as invalid aftermarket batteries usually don't last as long as the OEM ones do anyway.

And just to add to what Jay said, there has been a link to Non-OEM batteries causing cell phones to explode or catch on fire.
Plus it can wipe out the warranty, if they find a non-OEM battery has been used (it's hard to prove unless you send it in with the wrong battery, but why chance it)

[viewfly]

Nokia sent me an email newsletter that included tips for extending battery life.

Most seemed obvious, except for one: leaving GPRS to connect only when needed. I usually leave it always on. Don't know if it does much but I'm giving it a try.


Want to extend your battery life?

Here's how:
• Reduce the brightness and increase the contrast on your screen
• Make calls only when your signal is strong
• Set up your phone to make general packet radio service (GPRS) connects only when needed
• Don't run multiple background applications, and use Bluetooth connectivity sparingly

[Fred333]

Very good recommendations. I will have to take a look at all the unnecessary features that could be hurting my battery's life.

[RJB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D062; Blazer/4.5) 16;320x320)

very nice info in this thread

[RadioEngineer]

Originally Posted by Fred333

Very good recommendations. I will have to take a look at all the unnecessary features that could be hurting my battery's life.

The other factor is the quality of the signal the phone "sees". Cell phones adjust their output power dynamical in response to the received signal strength "RSSI". This dynamic interation means that if you are in a shielded area, such as inside your home or office, the output power off your phone is at maximum battery drain.
If you use a local amplified system with an efficient outside antenna in your car or building, the phone's battery life will increase substantially because it will sense a strong signal and reduce output power. The phone's output will be conversely boosted to the outside antenna as well restoring the balance to the cell carrier site [if the amplifier is of decent quality and has some smarts embedded into it].
We provide amplified antenna systems for homes and businesses.
Have a Five Bar Day,
Bill
IIII's R Us..

[RJB]

You know here is something I did a long time ago when signal was not so good in my life lol. If you are at your home and can put your phone on the window seal that can help your RF and thus help your battery at times. This might be silly to some but it did me wonders.

[R32VW]

I was reading the OP and was surprised to see that OEM Nokia chargers like the AC-3U do not shut off once the battery has been fully charged (or should my 6126 be "smart" enough, in my view, to stop the charge?). I have left my phone on charge overnight but will stop now.

[RJB]

I always leave my phone plugged in over night. I know I should no do this but after years of having phones and doing the same thing, nothing has happened. I just dont want to charge it in the evening then leave it unplugged all night then get to my busy day. I like to know it is fully charged when I walk out my door.

[RadioEngineer]

Originally Posted by RJB

I always leave my phone plugged in over night. I know I should no do this but after years of having phones and doing the same thing, nothing has happened. I just don't want to charge it in the evening then leave it unplugged all night then get to my busy day. I like to know it is fully charged when I walk out my door.

RJB- just charge it normally; the phone should cut off the charger before there is an issue.
Unlike a Ni Cad pack, it is OK to "top off" a Ii-ion battery that is almost fully charged before use. Once a Li-ion reaches full charge, it is full and the charge must be terminated internally in the pack controller or there is grave danger of an explosion, so your habitat of leaving it plugged in is very unlikely to cause issues.
The battery pack itself will have [by regulatory requirements] a safety circuit inside the pack itself that cuts off excessive charging in order to prevent explosions. It is irrelevant if the random Wall wart has the smarts to compliment the battery back's internal safety algorithm, because us OEMs have to assume the worst and compensate for attempts at using disallowed devices to be employed as chargers by the end user, Quality battery packs have an encrypted charger/battery challenge/response key that must be satisfied by the proper OEM charger, and the charger will also has the same in inverse, before the charge can begin, to prevent safety liability issues caused by "clone batteries" or aftermarket chargers.
Have a Five Bar Day!
Bill
Signal Bars R Us - take a look at our new website layout!

.

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by RJB

I always leave my phone plugged in over night. I know I should no do this but after years of having phones and doing the same thing, nothing has happened. I just dont want to charge it in the evening then leave it unplugged all night then get to my busy day. I like to know it is fully charged when I walk out my door.

I think you are probably OK with leaving the charger in all night. In my post on 10/31, I summed the residually measured 3ma after the complete charging cycle this way:

" If I had to interpret Nokia's manual warning about not leaving the charger in, it would be this: Probably the phones charger electronics terminates the charging cycle completely, and the small non pulsing 3mA draw we measured is not going to the battery. The charging algorithm is on 'standby' and not consuming much power."

My only caveat lector ('let the reader beware') was this:

"So this is ok. However, if you leave the charger in (or constantly disconnect and reconnect during the day), and the phone is on, normal battery drain with the phone in standby, at some point will cause the charger cycle to start again, and this will pump a lot of current into an otherwise fully charged battery. That's not good. I've noticed this when I would charge my phone overnight (with the phone on; phone off is a different situation): The phones display and 'beep' would wake me up several times during the night, saying that it's 'fully charged'. So perhaps this is part of Nokia's warning."

Just my suggestion.

Best,

P.S. RadioEngineer, very interesting and useful information. Welcome to WA Forums!

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by viewfly

I think you are probably OK with leaving the charger in all night. In my post on 10/31, I summed the residually measured 3ma after the complete charging cycle this way:

" If I had to interpret Nokia's manual warning about not leaving the charger in, it would be this: Probably the phones charger electronics terminates the charging cycle completely, and the small non pulsing 3mA draw we measured is not going to the battery. The charging algorithm is on 'standby' and not consuming much power."

My only caveat lector ('let the reader beware') was this:

"So this is ok. However, if you leave the charger in (or constantly disconnect and reconnect during the day), and the phone is on, normal battery drain with the phone in standby, at some point will cause the charger cycle to start again, and this will pump a lot of current into an otherwise fully charged battery. That's not good. I've noticed this when I would charge my phone overnight (with the phone on; phone off is a different situation): The phones display and 'beep' would wake me up several times during the night, saying that it's 'fully charged'. So perhaps this is part of Nokia's warning."

Just my suggestion.

Best,

P.S. RadioEngineer, very interesting and useful information. Welcome to WA Forums!

I have always charged my phones overnight, no matter if it was actually needed or not. I used to have problems with the old NiCad batteries in my StarTac, but with the new Lithium Ion batteries I have had no problems. Charging overnight makes sure I will be able to function a full day without the battery running out on me. Even if it was bad for the battery I would still do it. I would rather have to buy a new battery every year than have the battery die in the middle of the day because I didn't charge the night before because I was trying to save the battery.

-jay

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue

I have always charged my phones overnight, no matter if it was actually needed or not.

-jay

Sounds good. I normally charge in the morning, while I shower, etc. Doesn't take to long really.
I agree, charge overnight if that works better for you.

[dayrun]

I was told that when you first get a new battery you should completely charge the battery and let it completely deplete and then recharge 3 times to "train" the battery correctly and prolong it;s life. It's especially important as the battery gets closer to the end of its life. Is this incorrect?

[RadioEngineer]

Originally Posted by dayrun

I was told that when you first get a new battery you should completely charge the battery and let it completely deplete and then recharge 3 times to "train" the battery correctly and prolong it;s life. It's especially important as the battery gets closer to the end of its life. Is this incorrect?

That advice applies to only Ni-Cad and NiMH batteries which exhibit a characteristic called charge memory. Modern Lithium ion types do not require user intervention for charge management and do not exhibit this memory effect. With these modern batteries, the charger and the battery work together automatically to manage the battery. It is even OK to "top off" a lithium ion battery, and they do not need a "keep alive trickle charge" after being charged fully and rapidly.
Bill Signal Bars R Us

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by dayrun

I was told that when you first get a new battery you should completely charge the battery and let it completely deplete and then recharge 3 times to "train" the battery correctly and prolong it;s life. It's especially important as the battery gets closer to the end of its life. Is this incorrect?

You are right. But you only do that with a new Li-ion battery, the type used today in phones. After that, do not let it get to deep discharge very often. It is better to charge frequently, even with only a partial discharge. Li-ion batters have no memory to worry about.

From the Nokia phone manual, Nokia 6131:

Charging and discharging

"Your device is powered by a rechargeable battery. The full performance of a new battery is achieved only after two or three complete charge and discharge cycles. The battery can be charged and discharged hundreds of times, but it will eventually wear out. When the talk and standby times are noticeably shorter than normal, replace the battery. Use only Nokia approved
batteries, and recharge your battery only with Nokia approved chargers designated for this device."

Best,

VF

[RadioEngineer]

Originally Posted by viewfly

You are right. But you only do that with a new Li-ion battery, the type used today in phones. After that, do not let it get to deep discharge very often. It is better to charge frequently, even with only a partial discharge. Li-ion batters have no memory to worry about.

From the Nokia phone manual, Nokia 6131:

Charging and discharging

"Your device is powered by a rechargeable battery. The full performance of a new battery is achieved only after two or three complete charge and discharge cycles. The battery can be charged and discharged hundreds of times, but it will eventually wear out. When the talk and standby times are noticeably shorter than normal, replace the battery. Use only Nokia approved
batteries, and recharge your battery only with Nokia approved chargers designated for this device."

Best,

VF

Thanks Viewfly for providing the actual OEM information.
I have never seen that advice regarding Li Ion batteries before. I am curious why Nokia does not "train the batteries" at the factory when shipping the new batteries. It does not make sense to me for the end user to have to do this, or why the heck they even ask this to be done at all. This is not the first time I have seen OEM advice I find questionable in user manuals. This will not harm the battery, but I see no reason for the procedure from my experience with these batteries in other applications
Beyond overcharging to the point of explosion, deep discharge is the real killer of Li Ion batteries and the phone power management should prevent both situations from occurring.
Bill Signal Bars R Us

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by RadioEngineer

Thanks Viewfly for providing the actual OEM information.
I have never seen that advice regarding Li Ion batteries before. I am curious why Nokia does not "train the batteries" at the factory when shipping the new batteries. It does not make sense to me for the end user to have to do this, or why the heck they even ask this to be done at all. This is not the first time I have seen OEM advice I find questionable in user manuals. This will not harm the battery, but I see no reason for the procedure from my experience with these batteries in other applications
Beyond overcharging to the point of explosion, deep discharge is the real killer of Li Ion batteries and the phone power management should prevent both situations from occurring.
Bill Signal Bars R Us

I think the confusion is in the Li Ion's power management system of the phone and other devices (pc's).

Yes, I've seen mistakes in OEM manuals from time to time also. I don't believe that this is one. But I feel they are addressing 'recalibration' of the battery internal microelectronics ( that tell the phone the state of the battery charge, and protect it from deep discharge) and not really 'conditioning' of the battery cells. And here lies the confusion. Look at my first post here from the 'Battery University'.

So some say that Li-ion do not respond to deep 'conditioning'. True. In fact, Li-ion can afford only 300 or so full deep discharges over their lifetime...but considerably many more partial discharges. But the bottom line, if you don't even use the battery at all, the internal chemistry will kill it regardless in 3 years or so.

The best that I can figure, is that the internal battery electronics need to be reset so it understands what 'full' and 'discharged' really is. That measurement will shut down the phone regardless if the battery still has juice in it.

This is supported by not just Nokia, but Dell, Apple, and sites that sell batteries. But I do think that some sites think they are helping the battery. I have it on good personal advice there is some truth to this, but mostly, or in addition to this, is the 'calibration' effect for a new battery. As seen in the first post (and by Apple below), they recommend perhaps every few month for calibrations.

See these sites, Apple: Calibrating your computer's battery for best performance

"You can calibrate your iBook, PowerBook, MacBook or MacBook Pro computer's lithium ion battery for best performance.

The battery has an internal microprocessor that provides an estimate of the amount of energy in the battery as it charges and discharges. The battery needs to be recalibrated from time to time to keep the onscreen battery time and percent display accurate. With all iBooks and PowerBook G4 computers except the aluminum PowerBook G4 (15-inch Double-Layer SD), you should perform this procedure when you first use your computer and then every few months thereafter."

And this from Dell Tech support page: Dell - Support

"No. The new lithium-ion batteries do not acquire a false memory of the charge level and do not have to be fully discharged periodically like the older notebook batteries did.

You may need to recalibrate the battery from time to time. Recalibrating the battery maintains the accuracy of the main-battery indicator on the status display panel, the charge gauge on the main battery, and the battery status icon."

And that is basically a full discharge done by a software program on the Dell's. So 'recalibrating' the battery is not really effecting the battery itself, but the 'system' that makes up the battery pack; battery + protection electronics. The electronics are being 'Trained' not the battery exactly. Batteries are stored at 40% charge rate, and deteriotate on the shelf. So a new user would want to fully charge and then discharge at least one time. I'm not really sure why it is necessary to do it twice right away.

But, take heart, if you do nothing, the batteries will still perform well for most people. And that is probably why mfgr. don't like to talk about the details that much.

That the best of my current understanding,

Best,
Viewfly

[RadioEngineer]

Originally Posted by viewfly