Sprint 4G info - and EVDO to expand to 260m population

[xenophon]

http://www.xchangemag.com/tdhotnews/61h19121111.html

Sprint Nextel Corp. COO Len Lauer said today at WCA the service provider plans to launch a 4G network in the top 100 U.S. markets by 2008. In the meantime, Sprint will leverage 3G and its recent partnership with the cablecos to deliver converged voice and data services this year.

Meanwhile, the company will continue to focus on its 3G network [EVDO], expanding service to 260 million people in 2007. It also will improve throughputs and latencies, and will focus on distributing content, entertainment and media while leveraging relationships with top cablecos Time Warner Cable, Comcast and others.

260 million EVDO coverage is greater than 100% of voice network today (250m+), suggesting Sprint is indeed expanding coverage on existing Nextel sites. (Combined, Sprint/Nextel natively cover about 268 million population.) 260 million coverage for EVDO is greater than all of Verizon's native voice network, which is near 250m. Verizon's EVDO currently covers about 150m population.

While Cingular is rolling out HSDPA to some markets, looks like many (most?) will only get slower UMTS through 2006.

[ShoresGuy]

Is that a practical or a theoretical launch date? 3G just came to the US so why not give it some more time? If we replaced an existing network standard within 2 years of its launch, then it would mean we'll reach 5G or 6G much earlier.

[xenophon]

^Sprint's 4G is not intended to be a replacement to EVDO but rather an overlay. IE, they may rollout WiMAX as an overlay to EVDO but not replace it as they have different benefits. Also EVDO Rev B may be considered 4G as it is spec'd to do 70Mbps down and 27Mpbs up.

This could be a prelude to the fact that Sprint will likely become a wireless "cable" company someday, competing with satellite TV but integrated with your phone, PC and HDTV. EVDO Rev 0 won't do it, 4G will. With the arrangements that Sprint has made with the big 3 cable companies, don't be surprised if one of them merges with Sprint in 5 years or so as they will want a wireless way to deliver TV and they are into the telcom biz now as well with VoIP. Sprint wants to shift into becoming a content provider as well.

Sprint may eventually have a single signon account for any type of service. IE, they have 14,000+ WiFi hotspots, EVDO, dialup via Earthlink, wired highspeed, and WiMAX or some 4G thing will likely be coming. The idea is that you pay one monthly acct and have access to any type of connection. The Sprint Connection Manager on a PC would detect whatever method is available and go with the best connection - all with only one monthly account and single signon ID.

[hillbilly44]

That sounds great, but currently there is no 4G in existance or even a 4G standard yet so it's going to be difficult to do 4G. Also UMTS HSDPA will roll out in in all UMTS areas this year

[xenophon]

Originally Posted by hillbilly44 That sounds great, but currently there is no 4G in existance or even a 4G standard yet so it's going to be difficult to do 4G. Also UMTS HSDPA will roll out in in all UMTS areas this year

There is no IEEE spec for 4G yet. I suspect it will be used more as a marketing term than an official specification for a while. WiMAX, OFDM, EVDO Rev B - whatever is in the 50-100Mbps+ range is loosely being considered in the 4G territory.

What is your source that HSDPA is going to all UMTS cities? I've been looking at sources and Cingular seems to be adding UMTS in some (most?) markets this year and HSDPA in others, not all markets getting HSDPA. Marketingwise they are calling UMTS 'highspeed wireless' as well as HSDPA.

[jones]

Originally Posted by hillbilly44 That sounds great, but currently there is no 4G in existance or even a 4G standard yet so it's going to be difficult to do 4G. Also UMTS HSDPA will roll out in in all UMTS areas this year

Analog is still up and running.
Hope This Forum will still be there
and Members still alive when 4G Happens.

[hillbilly44]

Originally Posted by xenophon There is no IEEE spec for 4G yet. I suspect it will be used more as a marketing term than an official specification for a while. WiMAX, OFDM, EVDO Rev B - whatever is in the 50-100Mbps+ range is loosely being considered in the 4G territory. What is your source that HSDPA is going to all UMTS cities? I've been looking at sources and Cingular seems to be adding UMTS in some (most?) markets this year and HSDPA in others, not all markets getting HSDPA. Marketingwise they are calling UMTS 'highspeed wireless' as well as HSDPA.

Cingular's press releases say that they are going to roll out UMTS with HSDPA in 2006 in the top 100 markets. They have said that since they announced a UMTS roll-out. It's old news

[xenophon]

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

Nancy’s analysis shows that some markets may get plain old UMTS (200 to 300 Kbps) and others HSDPA (400 to 700 Kbps).

[Andy]

Verizon's 3g network currently covers more than 150m pops- do you think they'll just sit still and relax while Sprint says they will have 260m pops covered within two years??

[jrip]

Originally Posted by xenophon http://www.xchangemag.com/tdhotnews/61h19121111.html 260 million EVDO coverage is greater than 100% of voice network today (250m+), suggesting Sprint is indeed expanding coverage on existing Nextel sites. (Combined, Sprint/Nextel natively cover about 268 million population.) 260 million coverage for EVDO is greater than all of Verizon's native voice network, which is near 250m. Verizon's EVDO currently covers about 150m population. While Cingular is rolling out HSDPA to some markets, looks like many (most?) will only get slower UMTS through 2006.

This 260 million figure is only possible if Sprint Nextel buys out all remaining affiliates. And right now Sprint Nextel is fighting very hard to NOT buy the remaning affiliates. None of SN'S affiliates can afford to upgrade their entire networks, some cant afford more than one city. And SN is not willing to pay for the upgrade and allow the affiliate to keep the equiptment, for free. Sprint Nextel has dug a real deep hole for themselves. And the only way out is through aquisitions of it's affiliates, or becoming a "central bank" to fund it's affiliates network expansion and upgrade needs.

[larry]

Originally Posted by jrip This 260 million figure is only possible if Sprint Nextel buys out all remaining affiliates. And right now Sprint Nextel is fighting very hard to NOT buy the remaning affiliates. None of SN'S affiliates can afford to upgrade their entire networks, some cant afford more than one city. And SN is not willing to pay for the upgrade and allow the affiliate to keep the equiptment, for free. Sprint Nextel has dug a real deep hole for themselves. And the only way out is through aquisitions of it's affiliates, or becoming a "central bank" to fund it's affiliates network expansion and upgrade needs.

Doesn't Nextel or Nextel partners cover everywhere that Sprint's remaining affiliates cover?

The two largest affiliates have already been bought (Alamosa and Nextel Partners).

[jrip]

Originally Posted by larry Doesn't Nextel or Nextel partners cover everywhere that Sprint's remaining affiliates cover? The two largest affiliates have already been bought (Alamosa and Nextel Partners).

Pretty much. But Sprint Nextel cannot build out in those markets using their 1900mhz spectrum. Unless they buy the affiliate first. Their affiliate agreements strictly prohibit such a biuld out. Funny thing is that a "standard clause" in Sprints affiliate agreements is a "put option". Much like the one NPI had with Nextel. But Sprints is better, much less red tape is involved. Basicaly if Sprint wants to buy an affiliate all the have to do is give the prescribed advanced notice. No voting no quarreling, and a huge discount to boot.

[jrip]

Originally Posted by xenophon ^Sprint's 4G is not intended to be a replacement to EVDO but rather an overlay. IE, they may rollout WiMAX as an overlay to EVDO but not replace it as they have different benefits. Also EVDO Rev B may be considered 4G as it is spec'd to do 70Mbps down and 27Mpbs up. This could be a prelude to the fact that Sprint will likely become a wireless "cable" company someday, competing with satellite TV but integrated with your phone, PC and HDTV. EVDO Rev 0 won't do it, 4G will. With the arrangements that Sprint has made with the big 3 cable companies, don't be surprised if one of them merges with Sprint in 5 years or so as they will want a wireless way to deliver TV and they are into the telcom biz now as well with VoIP. Sprint wants to shift into becoming a content provider as well. Sprint may eventually have a single signon account for any type of service. IE, they have 14,000+ WiFi hotspots, EVDO, dialup via Earthlink, wired highspeed, and WiMAX or some 4G thing will likely be coming. The idea is that you pay one monthly acct and have access to any type of connection. The Sprint Connection Manager on a PC would detect whatever method is available and go with the best connection - all with only one monthly account and single signon ID.

Wi-MAX is for backhaul only. Sprint Nextels 4G is many different technologies that work toghether seamlessly. It is not any one single technology. Motorola is currently working on this 4G network. And they need to have it ready for the 2008 launch. While the rest of the world sit's on thier duff's and tries to inagine "what should 4G be?". Sprint Nextel will be working on 5g. So to speek. With 4G launched, and everybody else wondering whats happening. Wanting to license Sprint Nextels technology just to catch up (hint,hint). There is alot more behind the scenes going on than you may think. Sprint Nextel.....the next Quallcom? More likely than not.......

[bobolito]

Anyone remember back when Sprint somehow convinced its customers it had 3G service like 2 years ago when 1xRTT was launched? Here we go again. I see the same fiasco of undelievered promises happen again with 4G. History repeats itself!

[xenophon]

Originally Posted by jrip This 260 million figure is only possible if Sprint Nextel buys out all remaining affiliates. And right now Sprint Nextel is fighting very hard to NOT buy the remaning affiliates. None of SN'S affiliates can afford to upgrade their entire networks, some cant afford more than one city. And SN is not willing to pay for the upgrade and allow the affiliate to keep the equiptment, for free. Sprint Nextel has dug a real deep hole for themselves. And the only way out is through aquisitions of it's affiliates, or becoming a "central bank" to fund it's affiliates network expansion and upgrade needs.

Sprint's native network today covers 250m+. The addition of Nextel-owned towers combined on Sprint's covers 268 million population. Sprint has already started adding more towers on Nextel sites and it is realistic the network will cover 260m in 2007.

[xenophon]

Originally Posted by bobolito Anyone remember back when Sprint somehow convinced its customers it had 3G service like 2 years ago when 1xRTT was launched? Here we go again. I see the same fiasco of undelievered promises happen again with 4G. History repeats itself!

If you are bothered by the 4G term, then just think much higher speeds. The goal is for Sprint to deliver significantly higher speeds than EVDO Rev0/A. There are several technologies in the 50-100Mbps range whether you call that 4G or not - EVDO Rev B is one of them.

Sprint has just recently passed up Verizon in delivering EVDO Rev 0 to more markets. With more capacity and spectrum available, it's realistic they can deliver EVDO to 100% of the network. Verizon has over 50% 800mhz towers (80%?) and 800 has limited EVDO capacity. Verizon has been rolling out 1900 towers mostly only in larger markets and has avoided putting EVDO on 800 towers unless necessary. Sprint has all 1900mhz towers and can deliver EVDO on any tower they'd like to.

[hillbilly44]

Originally Posted by xenophon http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

I don't put alot of stock in Nancy's info. I do with the people I know at Cingular

[jrip]

Originally Posted by xenophon Sprint's native network today covers 250m+. The addition of Nextel-owned towers combined on Sprint's covers 268 million population. Sprint has already started adding more towers on Nextel sites and it is realistic the network will cover 260m in 2007.

Sprint cannot add CDMA to all Nextel sites, wich means no EVDO in those areas also. Much of Nextels markets are covered or partially covered by Sprint's affiliates. Sprint is barred by contract with these affiliates from adding any cell sites in any affiliate markets. Or using the 1900mhz spectrum in these affiliate markets. Sprint simply has no choice, they tied their own hands when they "created" these affiliates and gave them too much authority over the Sprint name and the spectrum owned by Sprint pcs.

Simply put EVDO will not be network wide unless Sprint buys ALL of it's affiliates. Or pays for the upgrades and signs over the equiptment to the affiliates. Without one of these two things happening neither 3G or 4G are going to happen except for a lucky few customers.

[xenophon]

Originally Posted by jrip Simply put EVDO will not be network wide unless Sprint buys ALL of it's affiliates. Or pays for the upgrades and signs over the equiptment to the affiliates. Without one of these two things happening neither 3G or 4G are going to happen except for a lucky few customers.

Lucky few? More like 160 million already can get Sprint EVDO, more than half US population. Please post sources. Sprint has already passed up Verizon in EVDO coverage and is in 40+ more distinct markets (120+ total) with dozens of sites going online each week. Sprint has already started adding CDMA on Nextel sites. The COO is the one who stated 260m EVDO network-wide coverage in 2007, not the marketing group. At the rate that Sprint caught up and passed Verizon in EVDO, they have already demonstrated the rate of rollout is realistic.

Sprint EVDO coverage greater than any US wireless broadband...
http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...doEnterZip.jsp

[jrip]

Originally Posted by xenophon Lucky few? More like 160 million already can get Sprint EVDO, more than half US population. Please post sources. Sprint has already passed up Verizon in EVDO coverage and is in 40+ more distinct markets (120+ total) with dozens of sites going online each week. Sprint has already started adding CDMA on Nextel sites. The COO is the one who stated 260m EVDO network-wide coverage in 2007, not the marketing group. At the rate that Sprint caught up and passed Verizon in EVDO, they have already demonstrated the rate of rollout is realistic. Sprint EVDO coverage greater than any US wireless broadband... http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...doEnterZip.jsp

That is their goal, 260m, that goal is impossible at this moment. Read an excerpt from a Sprint affiliate 10-k filing....

"In addition, in 2004 Sprint announced its plan to deploy a new wireless high-speed data network—called Evolution Data Optimized (“EV-DO”)—across its network. With average download speeds of 400-700 kilobytes per second and peak rates of up to 2 megabits per second, EV-DO, marketed as “Power Vision,” is expected to accelerate mobile device data usage. Sprint has deployed EV-DO in 141 metropolitan markets as of early November, 2005, and expects the service to be accessible to about 150 million people in over 220 metropolitan markets by early 2006. Although we are not required to deploy EV-DO across our territory, we have deployed EV-DO in Grand Rapids, Michigan and are evaluating the deployment of EV-DO in additional markets in our territory and the timing of any such additional deployment."

And another explaning why Sprint cannot simply launch EVDO accross the entire network.....

"Under our affiliation agreements with Sprint PCS, we have the exclusive right to provide wireless mobility communications services using the 1900 MHz frequency range under the Sprint brand name in our territory. Sprint PCS holds the spectrum licenses. The affiliation agreements with Sprint PCS require us to interface with the Sprint PCS network by building our network to operate on the 10, 20 or 30 MHz wireless personal communications services frequencies licensed to Sprint in the 1900 MHz range."

These are both brief explinatons from affiliate agreements taken out of SEC 10-k filings of iPCS. These are pretty standard for Sprint and all of its affiliates. Now do you see why it is impossible unless Sprint excersises the put option in its affiliate agreements? Sprint simply sold the right to launch EVDO in the majority of it's markets to someone else.

[xenophon]

If they need agreements with affiliates, what percentage of coverage is owned exclusively by affiliates and what is Sprint/Nextel-owned? I'd guess that the COO's statement implies that those agreements are in process, if even necessary to reach the goal.

It doesn't sound all that lofty in then end as Sprint has already rolled out EVDO to more than 60% of it's native network. They managed to get 100% of network to 1xRTT.

[Matt]

The affiliate issue will be smaller going forward as Sprint has bought a number of their large affiliates.

[xenophon]

Another article on Sprint's "4G" plans for 2008. I more interested in EVDO having the announced broader EVDO Rev 0 coverage in 2007 than the release of "4G" but it sounds like the first step is EVDO Rev A, which is 3Mb/sec, and then something like OFDM or WiMAX for other solutions.

http://www.convergedigest.com/Wirele...?ID=17114&ctgy

[jrip]

Originally Posted by xenophon If they need agreements with affiliates, what percentage of coverage is owned exclusively by affiliates and what is Sprint/Nextel-owned? I'd guess that the COO's statement implies that those agreements are in process, if even necessary to reach the goal. It doesn't sound all that lofty in then end as Sprint has already rolled out EVDO to more than 60% of it's native network. They managed to get 100% of network to 1xRTT.

iPCS still has a couple of areas that ar not 1xrtt. After the pending mergers Sprint will own about 60% (less than I believe) of the Sprint nationwide network. Before the recent forced buyouts Sprint only owned roughly 35% of the nationwide network. The rest is affiliate owned and controlled. In the remaining affiliate owned markets Sprint can do nothing but hope the affiliate performs the upgrades.

[jrip]

Originally Posted by Matt The affiliate issue will be smaller going forward as Sprint has bought a number of their large affiliates.

A few, yes but not enough to hit the numbers being stated to the media. More will have to be bought to accomplish these stated goals.

[Gman]

Originally Posted by jrip iPCS still has a couple of areas that ar not 1xrtt. After the pending mergers Sprint will own about 60% (less than I believe) of the Sprint nationwide network. Before the recent forced buyouts Sprint only owned roughly 35% of the nationwide network. The rest is affiliate owned and controlled. In the remaining affiliate owned markets Sprint can do nothing but hope the affiliate performs the upgrades.

When you are quoting these percentages what do you mean ? 60 % of the geographic coverage? Covered pops ? Towers ?

Frankly, I'm skeptical of your skepticism. Even if what you say is true the affiliate issue is almost gone.

G.

[jrip]

Originally Posted by Gman When you are quoting these percentages what do you mean ? 60 % of the geographic coverage? Covered pops ? Towers ? Frankly, I'm skeptical of your skepticism. Even if what you say is true the affiliate issue is almost gone. G.

Geographical coverage. Have you ever heard Sprint exec's mention that 80% of their customers are on 35% of their network? Sprint is the only carrier in the US that relies sooo heavily on affiliates for "on network coverage". Sprint actually owns very little of the "Sprint PCS Nationwide network". Wich is why analyst and investors have been pushing very hard for Sprint to buy out its affiliates for the last 3-4 years. And finally they bought a couple, but Sprint is trying very hard to stop right there.

[xenophon]

If the case, it doesn't seem to have impacted the EVDO rollout. Over 60% of network is EVDO and more towers are upgraded every week. How is this an issue? Agreements obviously are in place if your numbers are right. But please post sources.

[jrip]

Originally Posted by xenophon If the case, it doesn't seem to have impacted the EVDO rollout. Over 60% of network is EVDO and more towers are upgraded every week. How is this an issue? Agreements obviously are in place if your numbers are right. But please post sources.

I do not believe that 60% of the network is EVDO, not by a long shot....

http://www1.sprintpcs.com/explore/co...=1138343100487

[xenophon]

Originally Posted by jrip I do not believe that 60% of the network is EVDO, not by a long shot....

In terms of population coverage it is the case. Sprint's native network currently covers 250m population (though increasing as they are adding CDMA to Nextel sites). The first phase EVDO rollout, which is essentially complete, covers 150m+. That's 60%. It terms of US population, which is nearly 300m, Sprint's EVDO currently covers >50% US population.

The second phase EVDO rollout will cover 260m population, which will likely be about 100% of network and >85% US population. No other US carrier has mentioned a wireless broadband rollout to this degree.

Sprint EVDO covers 150m population...
http://www.sprint.com/business/produ...dData_tabC.jsp