T-Mobile : Major service issues in Western WI/Mnpls area : T-Mobile

[n9upc]

I have been a customer with T-Mobile since Dec 2006 after we got the boot from AT&T due to the normal too much off network usage as we were always going over to Dobson CellOne (then they bought CellOne about 2 months or so after we went to T-Mobile).

All was good from Dec 06 till Nov 07 and then the problems started. Not only with my phone but my wifes, my mothers, our friends, etc... We were having a certain key set of issues: 1.) anytime we would make or answer a call we would get echo backs (i.e. we answer and say hello and all we hear is hello); 2.) "all circuits are busy" on numerious attempts to call people; 3.) either not going to voicemail or the system cuts you off beofre you can leave a message; and 4.) dead carrier and the phone then gives the call failed.

Now of course T-Mobile said it was my phone, then my wifes, then the plans issue, and so on. Well after we spent $150 in the purchase of 3 prepaid phones and talking to other T-Mobile customers we find out that it is happening to A LOT of people.

So since Nov 07 we call T-Mobile and file a complaint/case #, then it is good for a few weeks, then back to problems, then good again, then bad, etc... over and over. Well within this last week or so things have hit a boiling point.

Now if I was using my phone for BS or non-important stuff then I would say oh well thats cellular for ya. But, we use T-Mobile, along with the other people I talk to, for paging purposes as we are Paramedics/Nurses/Sheriff Deputies. Now our services do not provide cell phones for us and gives us some extra $$$ in our paycheck to help defry the cost.

So while trying to call into medical control, dispatch, or other things that does not need to be aired over the public safety channels for scannerland we get these issues I am being mentioned above.

Now I know that cell phones are not 100% reliable and I am not trying to make calls in the basement of concrete buildings deep in the ground. I am talking about trying to make calls on street level with the tower in site and full bars on the phone showing that I am on the T-Mobile network.

So I am calling T-Mobile over and over and over again, and today I was meet with kindness and horrible rudeness. The part of kindness was the offering by the customer service rep to credit me with one month of service for my troubles as they see a pattern of me calling with the same problems over and over.

I asked that since it is an on going isue just let us leave, and hey I would even pay a prorated amount for the time I have left from now till Dec 08.

However, and this is the rudeness part, they tell me that since I am in an area of excellant coverage and these problems are not really happening that they will not let me exit out of my contract and I am going to have to deal with it.

So I took the credit and found out that they will now let you out of your contract if you move to an area with no T-Mobile service (with proof), or are in an area on their map that shows poor or ok signal strength. Then when I ask to speak to a manager she put me on hold for about 5 minutes then came back and said, "oh the manager will tell you the same thing so I am sorry." But she would never let me talk to the manager at all.


So be careful and warned that T-Mobile is having some major system/network issues and will not even listen to the customers that a problems exists and on many phones. They just seem to blow it off and pass it off.

I'd rather go with verizon right now then stay with T-Mobile a day longer. (By the way I do not like Verizon.)

[RadioFoneGuy]

When you get echo and static alot of the times its a network or more specifically a tower issue.

Alot of times the problem is resolved in 5 mins worth of swapping a radio at the site.

I dont know why they wouldnt listen Tmobile has always had pretty good CS.

Customers calling in gives the carrier a good indicator of problems going on. Some times minor issues do not get picked up in piles and piles of Network stats the Network Engineers have to look thru everyday.

You could always go back to ATT now they bought Cell One and get the best of both worlds.


Good Luck

[Jay2TheRescue]

Originally Posted by RadioFoneGuy

When you get echo and static alot of the times its a network or more specifically a tower issue.

Alot of times the problem is resolved in 5 mins worth of swapping a radio at the site.

I dont know why they wouldnt listen Tmobile has always had pretty good CS.

Customers calling in gives the carrier a good indicator of problems going on. Some times minor issues do not get picked up in piles and piles of Network stats the Network Engineers have to look thru everyday.

You could always go back to ATT now they bought Cell One and get the best of both worlds.
Good Luck

I believe its a network issue as well, and I think that porting back to AT&T would be the best overall solution (If TMO won't fix the network issue), but I believe the OP is still under contract with TMO through December.

-Jay

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[Eric47]

sometimes buying out a contract is cheaper than paying for services you cant use. thats how i look at it at least.

[tmobileman]

What happend with your call is that the rep you spoke with was so focused on doing their job, they forgot to do their job...what I mean is when you call and mention cancelling by policy to get a good score on the call the rep is required to make a valid attempt to save your business by giving you an offer i.e. month of service free. So I would say call back be calm it may take a while to get a resolution that is acceptable for both parties...the name of the game is compromise, I can promise you that early term fees get waived all of the time for issues like this, unfortunately for you, and for tmobile some reps are not always thinking customer first. Now on the flip side of this argument I am sure that a resolution to the issue with the service can be found and you can continue the business wih tmobile, this may take some time as the GSM network is a mysterious place...lol and sometimes krap just happens, I am not a technician but I can almost guarantee you that if as many people as you say it is happening too are all complaining than we are going to fix it. Keep your hopes up, and don't let the experience with a few people ruin your opinion of tmobile overall a great company. Hope this helps I am very interested to hear what happens next please update me

[RadioRaiders]

Originally Posted by tmobileman

What happend with your call is that the rep you spoke with was so focused on doing their job, they forgot to do their job...what I mean is when you call and mention cancelling by policy to get a good score on the call the rep is required to make a valid attempt to save your business by giving you an offer i.e. month of service free.
......
Now on the flip side of this argument I am sure that a resolution to the issue with the service can be found and you can continue the business wih tmobile, this may take some time as the GSM network is a mysterious place...lol and sometimes krap just happens, I am not a technician but I can almost guarantee you that if as many people as you say it is happening too are all complaining than we are going to fix it.

What kind of communication exists in T-Mobile between CS (Customer Service) and their Network Tuning and Optimization departments? I've worked in Network Tuning before (not T-Mobile), and we would get "Trouble Reports" from CS based on customer complaints and look into it and give a reply within 24-48 hours.

Example: If a customer was complaining of alot of dropped calls in a certain area, CS would tell the customer they will get a reply in 24-48 hours, and send us the TR. We would look into it, find the problem if we could (80% of the time we did find a problem, like something not dimensioned correctly, and correct it) and then reply to CS. CS would then call the customer back, thank them for their input and explain to them that the problem should be resolved soon (and usually it was).

I think this is a better solution to customer complaints, rather than essentially saying to the customer "You're imagining things, here's a $50 credit, go away" That's condescending to the customer, and doesn't help T-Mobile in helping to fix the problem in their network.

[tmobileman]

it's supposed to be the same type of process, it's technically called a service request and there should be a follow up call scheduled but all to often like I said the rep gets so concentrated on meeting the metric of the call rather than focusing on the issue with resolution in mind. I have and will continue to submit internal feedback to improve this process between cs and support teams I agree though throwing a credit to the problem does nothing to resolve the issue.

[RadioFoneGuy]

In my Job either a customer calls 611 or goes to a store and reports a complaint and ours goes into a ticketing systems a get assigned to a market. Then the market will assign the ticket to the appropriopriate Tech/Engineer.

The Tech/Engineer is suppose to resolve before 24 hours.

At my job these Trouble Tickets (resolution time) and network quality all impact annual bonus. So it is in everyone best interest to resolve any issues quick.

The most notorius Trouble Tickets are dropped calls, static, echo, no service etc.

Alot of times I check something out I cant repeat the problem or its bad coverage or phone.

Alot of times I can see trends with the cheap/free phones such as LG and Samsung are not good performers in a dual band GSM environment. Note: I said dual band environment which is 850 and 1900. These phones have a trend of dropping more dual band hand offs than the other handsets I have worked with.

I have also see problems with customers submitting bogus tickets to get new phones , ETF waived, free month etc. Not that often but it does happen.

If Tmobile has network issues I guarentee they know it. The equipment they use can generate literally a Ton of STATS about dropped calls, hand off, Packet Data, blocked calls etc.

Before anyone calls in a ticket to any carrier they should first check issue with another phone of a different make and model to be sure its just not a handset issue. I have seen so many people drop their phone in the toilet, lake, off a roof, concrete or whatever. The customer then has one way audio or dropped calls etc and calls CS.

[Eric47]

Originally Posted by RadioFoneGuy

In my Job either a customer calls 611 or goes to a store and reports a complaint and ours goes into a ticketing systems a get assigned to a market. Then the market will assign the ticket to the appropriopriate Tech/Engineer.

The Tech/Engineer is suppose to resolve before 24 hours.

At my job these Trouble Tickets (resolution time) and network quality all impact annual bonus. So it is in everyone best interest to resolve any issues quick.

The most notorius Trouble Tickets are dropped calls, static, echo, no service etc.

Alot of times I check something out I cant repeat the problem or its bad coverage or phone.

Alot of times I can see trends with the cheap/free phones such as LG and Samsung are not good performers in a dual band GSM environment. Note: I said dual band environment which is 850 and 1900. These phones have a trend of dropping more dual band hand offs than the other handsets I have worked with.

I have also see problems with customers submitting bogus tickets to get new phones , ETF waived, free month etc. Not that often but it does happen.

If Tmobile has network issues I guarentee they know it. The equipment they use can generate literally a Ton of STATS about dropped calls, hand off, Packet Data, blocked calls etc.

Before anyone calls in a ticket to any carrier they should first check issue with another phone of a different make and model to be sure its just not a handset issue. I have seen so many people drop their phone in the toilet, lake, off a roof, concrete or whatever. The customer then has one way audio or dropped calls etc and calls CS.

when you get these type of things where say a customer is reporting no coverage and you goto check it out and there is no coverage, and its not a tower issue, what do you guys do?

[tmobileman]

as a csrII I am find it hard to decipher if it is a real issue or if the cust is just saying something to like he said get out of contract or get a deal on a new phone...i.e. a lady called me today and she had been with us since 2002 she says she is wants to cancel due to no signal at her home...while researching her acct like I always do, she has called about 5 times since she started service...(two of those time raving about how well the service works at home, even in her basement) all have been to renew her contract for either a new phone or a new plan, not one complaint about the service in 6 years, I ask her how long has this been going on, she says since I started the service, I come back not to argue but mention well I see you have been a valued...blah blah blah customer for six years, and yet you regularly exceed your plan min, and you have never once complained about the service, so what is really going on (thinking I am trying to really get to the root cause of why this lady is wanting to cancel), she then says I am calling her a liar and she wants out of her contract that isn't up until 2010. I mention that we can't fix it if we don't know it's broke so she should have reported this to us when it happens, then proceed with sorry mam, but we can definately troubleshoot the issue to try and resolve it, but if you cancel it will be 200 bucks. I am really starting to see a trend with this type of call, honestly I would say about half of the calls we get to cancel for signal issue are customers being convinced by the tv commercials for at&t that promote fewest dropped calls...yeah in maybe one market. I think that part of the problem with why these service requests end up getting no follow up is we see so many of them getting filed for the wrong reasons as stated by RadioFoneGuy for customers trying to find a loophole because they renewed to get a great deal on a cheap phone then all of a sudden they want an Iphone...(I hate the Iphone)....I swear. Now unfortunately when a good customer calls and there really is an issue that needs to be investigated often it doesn't get treated correctly...the little boy has cried wolf to many times to be taken seriously all the time. OK I realize this is goin on and on...must have been a rough day at work today...sorry I will go have a beer and meditate.

[RadioRaiders]

Originally Posted by tmobileman

I am really starting to see a trend with this type of call, honestly I would say about half of the calls we get to cancel for signal issue are customers being convinced by the tv commercials for at&t that promote fewest dropped calls...yeah in maybe one market. I think that part of the problem with why these service requests end up getting no follow up is we see so many of them getting filed for the wrong reasons as stated by RadioFoneGuy for customers trying to find a loophole because they renewed to get a great deal on a cheap phone then all of a sudden they want an Iphone...(I hate the Iphone)....I swear.

Now unfortunately when a good customer calls and there really is an issue that needs to be investigated often it doesn't get treated correctly...the little boy has cried wolf to many times to be taken seriously all the time. .

I see your point. People found a loophole and they try to exploit it now. But I'd say stand your ground. If your network engineers don't see a problem in her area, send a tech out and have her show him the problem. Between these I think you can tell if she's got a legit problem or not.

Originally Posted by RadioFoneGuy

If Tmobile has network issues I guarentee they know it. The equipment they use can generate literally a Ton of STATS about dropped calls, hand off, Packet Data, blocked calls etc.
.

Like RFG said, there's alot of network statistic tools. You can use some of these to track individual subscribers and see how often they really do experience dropped calls or other problems. I used Ericsson's TEMS Visualization last year when tracking a customer problem, awesome tool. It takes the stats from the switch (CDR's) so no drive-testing required, and it shows the results graphically in a map, so you can see where the problem is actually happening. And you can filter MSISDN's (ie: phone numbers) and track subscibers to see where problems really happen to them.

My case showed the guy was having bad HSDPA performance, altho had good signal strength. After investigating I found it was because his building was between 2 cells of exactly equal strength, and his data card kept spent all it's time and energy ping-ponging between the 2 sites instead of getting the full data rates (HSDPA doesn't have soft-handover like regular UMTS, so it's only one site or the other)

[RadioFoneGuy]

Its definately a tricky business.

An example of poor Carrier trouble shooting is a problem my Dad had with Alltel a few years ago. My Dad went to Alltel back when they first put CDMA in the area and got the free Nokia and was happy for 1 and a half years then his service went to crap.

My Dad put in numourous call to Alltels CS and complained about dropped calls and CS could tell he had been dropping calls just by the call logs. Even after about 15 calls to CS and a couple trips to the store my Dad could net get Alltel to send a Tech out to investigate.

I grabbed another Nokia CDMA phone that was identical to my Dads and did my own testing and came to the conclusion the issue to be because of Cell breathing. With the phone I had I saw 1 bar during day (dont remember EC levels) but after people got out of work and things calmed down I could get between 3 and 5 bars. The Tower is next to a high way and my Dad is 3 miles from this tower and as more customers joined the tower coverage gradually shrinks and with no good handoffs in this environment the calls dropped. If a moved a mile closer to the tower I had crystal clear calls at 5 bars.

After fighting with Alltel they would not waive ETF fees even after seeing problems with my Dads account so I got him a Cellular One phone and forwarded his Alltel phone to it until he could cancel.

Alltel just like Tmobile has a pretty reputable Network and CS but the experience with my Dad put a bad taste in my mouth. It goes to show a Carrier can have the most towers, no dropped calls, the best phones but if there is poor CS none of the above matter.

[RadioRaiders]

Originally Posted by RadioFoneGuy

I grabbed another Nokia CDMA phone that was identical to my Dads and did my own testing and came to the conclusion the issue to be because of Cell breathing. With the phone I had I saw 1 bar during day (dont remember EC levels) but after people got out of work and things calmed down I could get between 3 and 5 bars. The Tower is next to a high way and my Dad is 3 miles from this tower and as more customers joined the tower coverage gradually shrinks and with no good handoffs in this environment the calls dropped. If a moved a mile closer to the tower I had crystal clear calls at 5 bars.
......
Alltel just like Tmobile has a pretty reputable Network and CS but the experience with my Dad put a bad taste in my mouth. It goes to show a Carrier can have the most towers, no dropped calls, the best phones but if there is poor CS none of the above matter.

Cell-breathing doesn't take away signal-strength (ie: you won't lose bars), but it adds interference which makes it difficult/impossible for people further away to connect. I think what happened was during the busy hours the cell closer to him would reach it's capacity limits and refuse to take him into it, and instead would force him to connect to a cell further away.

Anyway, it's just a guess, it's hard to say without working at Alltel But you're right, CS needs to take customer complaints more seriously, and focus on sorting out the bogus claims from the legit ones.

[RadioFoneGuy]

It was dropped calls, the bars were all over the place during the day and cleared out during the calm times.

Could also congestion where closer mobiles knocked off the further out ones.

From what I have seen the Walsh codes go haywire during rapid spurts of added call capacity.

Its all speculation as I didnt work for that company but there was definately something no right and its still isnt fixed over 2 years later.

[n9upc]

I understand that T-Mbl CS has to do everything within it's power to keep customers and ensure the happiness of them. However, when I have a documented problem along with 14 other people complaining of the same issue within the same area served by the same tower of the same netowrk don't get pi$$y with me and tell me it is my fault, or better yet to bad so sad you signed up for the service.
I also was VERY nice to them and understand that hey cellular service is not 100%. However, after I spent $150 on pre-paid phones and the problem still was their with the NEW pre-paid phones and SIM's but still told it is only my phone or our account and it is not I get a little upset.

**UPDATE**

Well finally push came to shove and I called T-Mbl to file a NEW service ticket and told them that everyone I know with T-Mbl with the current issue to call and ref the case # to show it is happening to people within that area only. In addition I also advised that everytime it happened I would call in to CS and ref the service ticket # to attach another call to it.
Once again they offered Hot Spot at Home as an option and asked me ALL the trouble shooting questions once again. I again explained it is not because I am in a basement or hole it is because I am on street level coverage, on a T-Mbl tower, with full signal strength, and can see the tower YET I am still having these issues. I told them that I do not want them to be sorry for the problem at all I just want them to FIX the problem. It is a pain in the a$$ these days to go cellular telephone shopping once again!
I explained my point of view which is: I enter into a 2 year agreement with you (the cellular service provider) for me to pay you a certain fee per month for a certain service. IN turn if I do not hold up the end of my bargain they (the cellualr service) can make me pay for the contract. But, if the cellualr service does not provider the service I have agreed to pay for then I, just like them, must have things taken care of such as release of contract, etc... (I would perfer that they pay me a break fee as I would have to pay them, but oh well.)
Finally, I reached a CS rep that has heard of this problem happening beofre in different markets and talked to her supervisor who has agreed that we can exit our contract without break fee's or early termination fees. Not to mention that this was unprovoked or asked for this time.
I stated that I am still willing to give them 1 last chance and since I am coming towards the end of my billing cycle in May that we would give until the month of June. If between now and the end of billing in June we have NO problems with our issues or any NEW issues we will stay with T-Mbl. However, if problems arise again then we will need to exit our contract early and say thank you for this partnership that just did not work out.

I must say that the CS rep herself even said WOW you are really having the issues and just want them resolved. You are not looking for free months or service or breaking of the contract. I said no I am not I just want the problem fixed. She also stated that she can see that my bills are always paid and until Nov 2007 we had no issues and can see a pattern as we described.


So T-Mbl is off of my "$h!t" list and in a neutral area. However, since I KNOW that this issue will not get resolved I guess I need to check into different cell companies again!

[tmobileman]

Finally, I reached a CS rep that has heard of this problem happening beofre in different markets and talked to her supervisor who has agreed that we can exit our contract without break fee's or early termination fees. Not to mention that this was unprovoked or asked for this time.
I stated that I am still willing to give them 1 last chance and since I am coming towards the end of my billing cycle in May that we would give until the month of June. If between now and the end of billing in June we have NO problems with our issues or any NEW issues we will stay with T-Mbl. However, if problems arise again then we will need to exit our contract early and say thank you for this partnership that just did not work out.

I must say that the CS rep herself even said WOW you are really having the issues and just want them resolved. You are not looking for free months or service or breaking of the contract. I said no I am not I just want the problem fixed. She also stated that she can see that my bills are always paid and until Nov 2007 we had no issues and can see a pattern as we described.


So T-Mbl is off of my "$h!t" list and in a neutral area. However, since I KNOW that this issue will not get resolved I guess I need to check into different cell companies again!

The sad reality of this issue is not now that you did not accept the offer when given the chance to cancel you may have to start all over again, tmobile is not obligated to honor this promise as it was made and it sounds like it was declined, while you did act very honorably in giving tmobile another "chance" to keep your business, you just had the offer of a lifetime and you passed. I understand that you want the issue resolved, and I hope for your sake and for ours (tmobile) that it is soon and to your satisfaction. But buddy now you're just not making sense, you wanted to be let out of your contract, you called and called and called some more until you got the answer that finally made you happy and then when given the answer and opportunity to cancel with no Penalty, you passed...thanks for the chance really, but as a consumer I think I would have cut my losses and switched. The hard part of this is that this rep really did understand and I would like to think that this would be an option for you later given the fact that you seem like an honest customer, but again the sad reality is that we made you an offer and that offer was declined. But good luck and again I truly hope that this issue is resolved soon...and if not I hope that you get a rep that will think outside the box again for you without causing you to call many times...it may be noted on the acct but still it was an offer that was declined. Good Luck

[n9upc]

The rep did give me her ID or Rep # (it is written down at home) along with her managers name and who approved it. They (both the female and manager) did agree that it would remain active on my account that I can exit out of my contract if there is another problem with in the time frame.
As stated I do not want to quit T-Mbl, just for them to fix the problem. By doing this it also builds a case in my favor as it shows that I have had any issue, it has been supported and backed by other people with the same problem, and the request for what I want has been granted. However, by giving T-Mbl another chance it shows loyality and a commitment to work with the service. That is at least what the AG office of my state said that I have now proven beyond a doubt.

*RANT* See in my opinion, coming from a day of cellular back when you picked your phone then the service, people want to dump and run because the company next door has the new cool phone or the super-duper wipe my butt service. However, for me this is not the case at all.
I want a phone that when I have good signal strength (3, 4, or even 5 bars) on my home network at street level with the tower in site I can make a telephone call and have a completion rate of at least 90%. That is a simple 9 out of 10 calls given the above parameters mentioned. I want 100% but I do realize that cellular IS NOT 100% and I think holding to a 90% success rate is not a high or hard standard.
For the first few weeks, then turned into months of this issue, I wanted to have the problem solved and move along. Hell approx $155/month for 3 phones with BB data and 5 free #'s for unlim calling is not a bad price. However, if I am paying that amount per month and I have a success rate of approx 40%-60% in my city but NO where else in the market is not acceptable!
Once it turned into a case of, "Well it is your phone," or "it is your account," or "sorry no problem must be you," is not an answer to be given. Nor is pushing me off as the questions I ask for answers, note answers, can not be answered so send him to another department.
I am a consumer, I have done my home work, this is unacceptable! As my grandfather use to say, "Don't crap in a box, put a bow on it, and call it a brownie!" This is what happened here and it is insulting.

In closing, to all CS reps for ALL companies, work with your customers! The ones that want a free ride via new equipment, service credits, etc. will be seen from a mile away. But the true customers who want to stick with you bu your side will work with you. In this case this is what it is but I am not getting the chance to have the CS department work with me to a solution till just within this last day or so. I pay for a service, I expressed my need for the service (working for an S.O., my wife a nurse, both of us vol time as medics). I was told the service did ABC and in turn it only did ABD and now with problems.
end/*RANT*

As a final note after I did the other post I talked with my wife and we are now looking at another service as my wife had issues again last night. I guess VZW, AT&T, or Sprint here we come!