Enhanced Coverage on Bois Blanc Island? (michigan)

[RadioFoneGuy]

yah no kidding life give me an ul-sore.

[clock3687]

lol...tell me about it. Towers have been disguised as trees and such. Some look really good http://gallery.wirelessadvisor.com/s....php?i=900&c=8
others look really bad http://gallery.wirelessadvisor.com/s...php?i=141&c=34
SO if it is really that much of an eye-sore, the twp should cooperate with cellone/alltel to come up with a design that would be more acceptable to BB Island.

[RadioFoneGuy]

Its alot more than that. BB island is in the stage of getting a Carrier interested in putting up a tower. From what I have seen it does look like anyone is willing to put one on the island itself. I havent seen any fake trees in michigan.

[clock3687]

I understand that cellone, i was just throwing out a suggestion that could be brought up against NIMBYs in the area.

[conis]

Originally Posted by Cellonetech

Its alot more than that. BB island is in the stage of getting a Carrier interested in putting up a tower. From what I have seen it does look like anyone is willing to put one on the island itself. I havent seen any fake trees in michigan.

Issues stalled at present. Looks like maybe 5/9 meeting. who knows.

Question: Can someone briefly explain how the E911 feature works? GPS data sent from the phone? Telemetry/triangulation?

This information might be of some use in explaining (to the twp) how emergency response could be improved.

At present, there are NO 911 address signs on the island. There are no formal street addresses on the island.

[clock3687]

Originally Posted by conis

Issues stalled at present. Looks like maybe 5/9 meeting. who knows.

Question: Can someone briefly explain how the E911 feature works? GPS data sent from the phone? Telemetry/triangulation?

This information might be of some use in explaining (to the twp) how emergency response could be improved.

At present, there are NO 911 address signs on the island. There are no formal street addresses on the island.

Ok theres two phases of e911, Phase I required that all carriers provide the number of the cell phone calling 911, as well as the tower that the call originated from. That was put into place in '98. That only gives an approximate indication of where the call took place from. Phase II was implimented in 2001 and has been rolled out in waves, It should have been completed in 2005, but there are still some areas that havent been updated from Phase I, yet. In addtion Phase II adds the ability to give the 911 dispatcher the latitude and longitude of the cell phone calling. This is usually done by using 3 different towers to triangulate the position of the phone. In rural areas where there maybe 1 tower every 4 miles or so, that generally isnt possible, so software is used to estimate the location of the phone. In addition to the carriers implimenting this, the 911 dispatch center has got to have the Phase II equipment as well in order to take advantage of it. Sorry for the technical stuff, thats what I can dig up.

Basically E911 phase 1 displays cell phone number, and location of tower

E911 phase II triangulates location and gives lat and long readings to 911 dispatcher. If 3 towers arent available to triangulate, then software is used. Rollout of this is not yet complete. Having said this it would help out in emergency situations if you had this since you dont have street addresses. Let us know if you got ne other q's

[conis]

Thanks for the insight. Radio Telemetry and triangulation is something I fully understand.


With one tower its a W.A.Guess. This would get them close in an urban area with close towers and strong signals. In the sticks? Maybe within 1/4 mile with three reception towers.

I though some of the newer phones had GPS capability and just wondered it that was somehow utilized to pin down a location. Thats about what it would take to get it within 100' or so.

[clock3687]

Originally Posted by conis

Thanks for the insight. Radio Telemetry and triangulation is something I fully understand.


With one tower its a W.A.Guess. This would get them close in an urban area with close towers and strong signals. In the sticks? Maybe within 1/4 mile with three reception towers.

I though some of the newer phones had GPS capability and just wondered it that was somehow utilized to pin down a location. Thats about what it would take to get it within 100' or so.

A lot of the Nextel phones have got GPS recievers in them. Verizon offers GPS service for their phones, but thats based off triangulation of the towers as well. If the phones have a GPS reciever then generally it will say it, but for the most part location is determined by the towers and not GPS

[RadioFoneGuy]

some carriers due offer GPS capable handsets but you fall in the same problems area LOS line of site. The handset needs to be able to see the horizon or overhead to pick up GPS so underpasses, gas stations, buildings basements etc can be problem areas.

I have to make 911 calls all the time to verify its working. You would be shocked how close it gets with out GPS. I called on a new tower I built while on the highway doing 70 and dispatch said "your near exit # on Hwy #. I was passing that exit at that time. Rural area can be tricky especially if you have alot of omni sites.

[conis]

Again thanks. I think I got it.

I can't see BBI being good to go on E911 without 3 towers on the island. Else it is a Cheboygan received: "911 from Bois Blanc, we think" About like it is now.

Triangulation can be extremely precise with three inputs. We are marginal at one.

My advice... if we can get better coverage... thats good... but carry a compass and a $100 Garmin gps as backup. Standard equipment for me on any 4 wheeler recon missions into BBi BFE. And People do get hurt "back there".

Friend on the island is a downstate firefighter/paramedic. He has stories to tell about BBI "saves" but only because he knows his s***.

Every year... incidents.

Maybe we ought to skip the cell coverage and go with Darwins evolution theory. The stupid don't survive...

[Gonz]

well, If the cellular stuff doesent pan out, worse comes to worse, you could always get a VHF repeater with a phone patch, and all buy radios... That would for sure give you absolute island-wide coverage. A used VHF repeater is probably gonna run you $500, radios mabey $100 each. That's one way to communicate amongst eachother, and make outside connections on a short basis.

[Gonz]

you could also look at long-range wifi, and have everybody go get the new skype wifi-phones. That would be yet more inexpensive, and would allow for cheap nationwide individual communications.

[yuri1419]

Originally Posted by Gonz

you could also look at long-range wifi, and have everybody go get the new skype wifi-phones. That would be yet more inexpensive, and would allow for cheap nationwide individual communications.

Good luck with that one. My in-laws live between Cheboygan and Mac City on hwy 23, and they can't find anyone to get them broadband- wired or wireless. They tried to talk to a wireless ISP in the area, but they eventually stopped returning phone calls.

I'm looking forward to trying out my employer's Verizon data card on my next trip up there.... 1XRTT is better than dialup.....

[strunke]

Originally Posted by yuri1419

Good luck with that one. My in-laws live between Cheboygan and Mac City on hwy 23, and they can't find anyone to get them broadband- wired or wireless. They tried to talk to a wireless ISP in the area, but they eventually stopped returning phone calls.

I'm looking forward to trying out my employer's Verizon data card on my next trip up there.... 1XRTT is better than dialup.....

Yep you'll be on Alltel's 1x up there.

[Gonz]

Alltel has been building out EVDO I believe.

[Alienware_51]

The EVDO stops around cadillac, they are probably working on evdo in northern lower michigan as we speak (like Traverse City, Mackinaw City, Alpena) I'm guessing they are only going to put it in the bigger cities up here, because like Strunke said a long time ago, they aren't going to blast bandwidth into the boonies, it's going to cost to much.

[RadioFoneGuy]

A buddy of mine says there working on EVDO in Cadillac and North. Right now there waiting on the extra backhauls back to Grand Rapids. My friend at Alltel says there going to put EVDO on all of there towers, even in the boonies. The rumors are also flying over at Alltel as well.

[Alienware_51]

oh, then maybe Alltel will have EVDO up here in Northern Michigan by early 2008, or earlier??

[RadioFoneGuy]

I would say this summer. It also looks like there not doing much for new towers. Looks like there focusing on just data this year.