Enhanced Coverage on Bois Blanc Island? (michigan)

[conis]

Thanks for the suggestion,

I think square one will be to approach carriers in Cheboygan as far as boosting the signal to the island. BBI isn't that far out there. Some areas on the island are 4-5 bar. The problem is the islands interior.

Repeaters are an option, square two of we can't get the carriers involved.

Square three is personally owned equipment which is about where things stand so square three is square zero I guess.

See where it goes. This may take a while.

[Alienware_51]

Originally Posted by conis Thanks for the suggestion, I think square one will be to approach carriers in Cheboygan as far as boosting the signal to the island. BBI isn't that far out there. Some areas on the island are 4-5 bar. The problem is the islands interior. Repeaters are an option, square two of we can't get the carriers involved. Square three is personally owned equipment which is about where things stand so square three is square zero I guess. See where it goes. This may take a while.

I think Cellular One would be your best bet if you wanted to get a tower on Bios Blanc. Mainly because they usually listen better than Alltel, im not trying to bash Alltel or anything. You would think that if there was enough people on the island (which there is) then if you as a community contacted them I'm sure they would listen and try to figure a way to install a tower or something out there.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by conis Thanks for the suggestion, I think square one will be to approach carriers in Cheboygan as far as boosting the signal to the island. BBI isn't that far out there. Some areas on the island are 4-5 bar. The problem is the islands interior. Repeaters are an option, square two of we can't get the carriers involved. Square three is personally owned equipment which is about where things stand so square three is square zero I guess. See where it goes. This may take a while.

I highly doubt that the island can be covered much better from the mainland than it already is. The outside of the island has good coverage because it has straight line of sight to the towers on-shore. I'm not sure about the topography of the island, but since the towers on the shore are at least a few miles away, with obstacles inbetween you and the cell sites, which I assume you have when you are inland, there is not much more they can do from the mainland.
I'm sure if your community contacted ALLTEL they would listen. Write a letter to their Cooperate Office, they always listen.

[jones]

Alltel is for Sale,
so their Budget Has to be Trimmed.
They have to look good to their Buyers.

[conis]

Originally Posted by Alienware_51 I think Cellular One would be your best bet if you wanted to get a tower on Bios Blanc. Mainly because they usually listen better than Alltel, im not trying to bash Alltel or anything. You would think that if there was enough people on the island (which there is) then if you as a community contacted them I'm sure they would listen and try to figure a way to install a tower or something out there.

I am kind of getting this too. I know of many who have used Alltell around Cheboygan for some time... Crossed the river to Cellone. Coverage issues.

Hey... whoever is getting the job done. Cellone or Alltel wants to work with BBI on this and does... Either can be competitive or sit in the mud. Way I see it , it is about who does something first and steps up to the plate. There is a market "out there" Asleep at the wheel or not?

I just don't see reception equipment on the island until the market is verified. Which it would be by whoever jumps in, first, to see. And "whoever" has a head start.

[Alienware_51]

Conis did the Bois Blanc Twp officials talk about the cell coverage issue???

[conis]

Originally Posted by Alienware_51 Conis did the Bois Blanc Twp officials talk about the cell coverage issue???

Forthcoming. I got suckered into this fact finding mission. I sent a letter to the twp early this week. Interest/action level is high. to be introduced next meeting "for further review" based on what I have just presented..

I think things will move forward, but it is going to take a while if you know much about any twp government and the snails pace they get things done.

There is HUGE pressure and I don't think there will be undue butt dragging on this. This was a huge issue last summer. Ball is in their court and they can't afford to fumble this or do studies about it.

I guess we'll see.

[Fire14]

Originally Posted by conis Forthcoming. I got suckered into this fact finding mission. I sent a letter to the twp early this week. Interest/action level is high. to be introduced next meeting "for further review" based on what I have just presented.. I think things will move forward, but it is going to take a while if you know much about any twp government and the snails pace they get things done. There is HUGE pressure and I don't think there will be undue butt dragging on this. This was a huge issue last summer. Ball is in their court and they can't afford to fumble this or do studies about it. I guess we'll see.

Maybe it would be a good idea to have the township send the letters to the carriers, showing they want it & won't fight it vs if you sent the letter. When it's an official letter from the island township commitee & even zoning board/building dept. then the carriers may be more inclined to see what can be done & act faster.

[conis]

Originally Posted by Fire14 Maybe it would be a good idea to have the township send the letters to the carriers, showing they want it & won't fight it vs if you sent the letter. When it's an official letter from the island township commitee & even zoning board/building dept. then the carriers may be more inclined to see what can be done & act faster.

That's exactly where things stand at this time. If there is to be any further action, it will have to be initiated by the twp and discussion between them and carriers. All I have done is provide info to the twp so they have some clue as to who to contact and where to begin. And what the options might be.

This will be brought up at the April Twp meeting. The letter I sent earlier this week (To the supervisor) I am sure will be circulated to other board members in advance, so they aren't coming in cold with this at the meeting.

See what happens from there, I guess.

[RadioFoneGuy]

I just found some sweet info. Click on the link below. The first one is the Point nipegon site we are on and show are old and new equipment. There is also a pick taken on top of the tower and you can see BB island.

http://www.americantower.com/OASISPu...jectSubTypeId=

Here is the second for our Freedom site.

http://www.americantower.com/OASISPu...jectSubTypeId=

May have to copy and paste the links. On the Point Nipgon we are the only carrier and on the Freedom site we are on the top of the tower and IPCS is on the bottom. IPCS is the Sprint contractor/affiliate up here.

Notice that the antennas only point up and down 23 at this time. You can see some from the air pics of BB island.

[RadioFoneGuy]

By the way, glad to see the thread re-opened. Hopefully we can stay on topic, its real easy to get off track. I didnt mean to get anyone PO'd sorry if I did.

[conis]

Cellonetech:

I'll have a look at the links. Thanks.

You didn't PO anyone off. Via PM those involved in the "exchange", (ME) straightened things out and back on track. No big deal.

Last night I went to the Beaver Island site, perused the forum and made a post. See what I can dig up from the locals as far as their initial approach in getting service out there. Some iinsightful comments posted by the Cellone person working out of Petoskey. Now... he wouldn't be your cousin or something?

In looking through that B.I. forum, my impression is that BI is a WAY different place than Bois Blanc as far as being progressive and keeping things up to date. Maybe to a fault. Lots of rules and regulations. Bois Blanc is more like a cross between Alaska and Wyoming. B.I. is getting pretty "downtown" any more. I haven't been to B.I. in 6-7 years.

I am keeping a low profile and this subject off The Bois Blanc Website until the Twp. has a chance to pick it up and respond. Meanwhile, I am still digging for more information on the chance the twp will want to move forward ASAP.

Thanks again.
C

[RadioFoneGuy]

No idea on the Cellone person in Petoskey. Is it a tech or sales? Beaver Island is definately different but still pretty rustic compared to main land. I like it, you get the best of both worlds out there.

I think the fastest and cheapest solution for the time being is going to be have mainland towers point antennas toward BB. If you look in the links I sent you it shows the 2 closest towers to the island. I looked at one pick and IPCS actually has some antennas pointed toward the island but this will only help Sprint customers or roamers. This is only PCS 1900 so inland will suck on PCS.

[conis]

Originally Posted by Cellonetech No idea on the Cellone person in Petoskey. Is it a tech or sales? Beaver Island is definately different but still pretty rustic compared to main land. I like it, you get the best of both worlds out there. I think the fastest and cheapest solution for the time being is going to be have mainland towers point antennas toward BB. If you look in the links I sent you it shows the 2 closest towers to the island. I looked at one pick and IPCS actually has some antennas pointed toward the island but this will only help Sprint customers or roamers. This is only PCS 1900 so inland will suck on PCS.

From the beaver Island site: Fri Oct 08, 2004

Zoning board gave approval for an additional cell site on top of the Ace Hardware at last nights meeting. This will be a GSM voice only site and will compliment the other new GSM site at our existing location by the airport. Estimated time for completion is December this year. As we get closer to completion, I will be holding an informational meeting on the island for all those with questions. I have also requested that a third site for the southern end of the Island be budgeted for 2005. I'm not sure how far that will get but we will keep pushing. This is a huge step towards better cellular service on the island. Please feel free to e-mail me with any questions. Thanks to all for your letters of support.
Jim Carrow
Cellularone

In Another post, Cellone/Petoskey was mentioned.

I looked at the links you provided. The Point Nipgon site is probably the most beneficial to BBI. Didn't you mention a new tower installation east by Cordwood Point, due to be upgraded? The east end of Bois Blanc suffers the worst. I would assume due to the increasing distance to the mainland as the straits open up into Huron. Directional antennas wouldn't hurt anything, thats for sure.

Maybe with some encouragement from the township, Cellone will come out to the island and get a handle on the situation? That's what needs to happen.

I used to go out to Beaver A LOT. I have many friends out there that own places. Always an open invite. But it has been a while. I sort of "refugeed" to Bois Blanc because it is less developed and less restrictive. I guess everyone likes what they like. I saw Beaver changing and going upscale in the mid 90's with the Bay Harbor influence. With that said, I looked at a link from the BIproperty owners assn. The list of no-nos is getting longer every year.

I am the one getting off track now. Except to say the likely reason Beaver has cell service and Bois Blanc doesn't has more to do with the mind set of the island property owners. Grosse Pointe "modern" versus BFE "rustic-think".

Another thought: One of the impediments to bring cell service to Bois Blanc might be visablity of a tower. Serious tree-huggers on BBI. NIMBY-think. I understand that there was significant resistance to TDS putting up their relay tower, whenever that was. Hey. Can't have it both ways.

Bois Blanc is a long narrow island with 80% of the "civilization" along the south shore extending perhaps 1-2 miles north-inland. Where the power ends, so do the camps/cottages. I believe BBI is about 15 miles long(E-W) x 8 miles wide (N-S). 22 miles by road, one end to the other. Virtually nothing on the North shore except 3-4 isolated hunting camps.

Not knowing exactly what I am talking about, I would think that for BBI to really have solid coverage the length of the island, it would require 2-3 stations on the ilsand?

For the time being, better access to the mainland might just be enough to make folks happy and work around the NIMBY tower-on-the-island barriers?

[RadioFoneGuy]

I think I have met Jim before. I use to work in the Charlevoix and Petoskey area about 3 years ago before the National Guard sent me to IRAQ. I think Jim may have worked in the Petoskey Sales Office. I put a repeater in the sales office some 3 years ago and seems like I remember meeting him.


I think you have a good start on making things happen. Its all about the buzz so to speak.

[conis]

Originally Posted by Cellonetech I think you have a good start on making things happen. Its all about the buzz so to speak.

It's a start, maybe. If it isn't... there are going to be a lot of Islanders more POed than they already are. I am doing my homework and passing it to those who can take the lead.

Another lame question with a couple of "what ifs" parked up front.

#1 Alltell is for sale. Might I assume that if picked up by Cellone, CDMA would be phased out in favor of GSM or is this open speculation on "who knows"???

#2 if 850 gsm is beamed to BBI by Cellone, what other carriers would be able use it? Verizon? Cingular? T Mobile? Recriprocal roam?

I understand Nextel/Sprint are doing theri own tech. Alltel the only one using CDMA?

Just trying to sort out who would win/lose if Cellone fixed anything. I have a chart of all the carriers in the straits area and who is using what. I don't think the information is current. Half the carriers listed have gone under and been bought up.

These are all questions that will be brought up and I have to at least appear to have the information up front.

This is being "presented" at the next twp meeting. From that point they will "do a study about it" (which is what they do the most of and why there is no cell service, yet). From that point, I am hoping reps will be at a follow up to field questions and provide some accurate information.

[clock3687]

Originally Posted by conis It's a start, maybe. If it isn't... there are going to be a lot of Islanders more POed than they already are. I am doing my homework and passing it to those who can take the lead. Another lame question with a couple of "what ifs" parked up front. #1 Alltell is for sale. Might I assume that if picked up by Cellone, CDMA would be phased out in favor of GSM or is this open speculation on "who knows"??? #2 if 850 gsm is beamed to BBI by Cellone, what other carriers would be able use it? Verizon? Cingular? T Mobile? Recriprocal roam? I understand Nextel/Sprint are doing theri own tech. Alltel the only one using CDMA? Just trying to sort out who would win/lose if Cellone fixed anything. I have a chart of all the carriers in the straits area and who is using what. I don't think the information is current. Half the carriers listed have gone under and been bought up. These are all questions that will be brought up and I have to at least appear to have the information up front. This is being "presented" at the next twp meeting. From that point they will "do a study about it" (which is what they do the most of and why there is no cell service, yet). From that point, I am hoping reps will be at a follow up to field questions and provide some accurate information.

Ok i hope i can answer all your q's completely:

1) ALLTEL being for sale is a fact, the question is who, if anyone, is going to pick them up. Im more willing to bet that another CDMA carrier would pick them up. Otherwise the cost to change over all of ALLTEL to GSM would be astronomical. Dobson (the owner of cell one), could buy out alltel, but that would mean that they would have to sell the north michigan area alltel network to another carrier, which would esp. put a delay in you getting alltel to do something about BBI.

2) If 850 is beamed to BBi for w/e reason by cellone then the gsm carriers with a roaming agreement with cellone (i.e. cingular, t-mobile) will be able to take advantage of that. The CDMA carriers (alltel, verizon, sprint) wouldnt be able to use that signal at all.

3) In regards to Sprint/Nextel , in your area they have an affiliate IPCS (kinda like a roaming partner) managing their network, but its still CDMA so their in the same boat as ALLTEL.

Good luck

[conis]

Thanks, good clear answer!

Thats what I can take to the twp.

[strunke]

Originally Posted by clock3687 1) ALLTEL being for sale is a fact, the question is who, if anyone, is going to pick them up. Im more willing to bet that another CDMA carrier would pick them up. Otherwise the cost to change over all of ALLTEL to GSM would be astronomical. Dobson (the owner of cell one), could buy out alltel, but that would mean that they would have to sell the north michigan area alltel network to another carrier, which would esp. put a delay in you getting alltel to do something about BBI.

Alltel is bigger then Dobson and couldn't purchase Alltel without going belly up and in debt trying to do so. The price Alltel is seeking is 30 billion. Dobson has a market cap of 1.29B, Alltel's is 24.79B......

The only possibilities are one of the national carriers (Sprint, VZW, Cingular, T-Mobile), private equity, or Alltel not selling and continuing to the 700 mhz spectrum auction/alltel buying metro PCS and other carriers, to expand.

Other then that everything else is right on

[RadioFoneGuy]

Originally Posted by clock3687 Ok i hope i can answer all your q's completely: 1) ALLTEL being for sale is a fact, the question is who, if anyone, is going to pick them up. Im more willing to bet that another CDMA carrier would pick them up. Otherwise the cost to change over all of ALLTEL to GSM would be astronomical. Dobson (the owner of cell one), could buy out alltel, but that would mean that they would have to sell the north michigan area alltel network to another carrier, which would esp. put a delay in you getting alltel to do something about BBI. 2) If 850 is beamed to BBi for w/e reason by cellone then the gsm carriers with a roaming agreement with cellone (i.e. cingular, t-mobile) will be able to take advantage of that. The CDMA carriers (alltel, verizon, sprint) wouldnt be able to use that signal at all. 3) In regards to Sprint/Nextel , in your area they have an affiliate IPCS (kinda like a roaming partner) managing their network, but its still CDMA so their in the same boat as ALLTEL. Good luck

Pretty much on the dot. Heres some more history to understand whats out there.

Cellone (dobson communications) bought out RFB, NPI and a little known company called Alpine PCS which was owned by RFB. Cellone has 850 and 1900 PCS Freqs using TDMA/CDMA/Analog with GSM on all mergered companies towers. Roamers are Cingular (ATT), Tmobile, Centennial.

Alltel (centurytel wireless buyout) all 850 CDMA. Roamers are Verizon, Sprint, US Cellular and a few others.

IPCS (do not confuse with sprint) There is no such thing as Sprint up here. A small company called IPCS pays money to Sprint to use the Sprint name on its network and its stores. There coverage is CDMA and has pretty much the same roaming partners as Sprint (corporate) IPCS operates in the 1900 PCS band and they are pretty much highway huggers.

Nextel. 800mhz 2way and Cellular. The system is called IDEN and is not compatible with GSM or CDMA. IDEN has superior 2 way but the cellular part does not hold many calls so they have a problem with blocking in bigger areas.
Sprint (corporate) will eventually change out to CDMA if they dont get bought out themselves. Nextel basically is a stand alone system is primarily only used by Nextel and Boost mobile. Coverage is very sparse in Northern Michigan but the 800 carries pretty well.

Verizon is in the area but has limited coverage and they are not currently selling service. They only offer service to existing customers. They are running CDMA 1900 PCS and roam with Alltel, Sprint, US Cellular ETC

As far as Alltel its all speculation, if they get bought it will be a big cell company like ATT, Verizon or Tmobile. Sprint is having its own problems. If a cell company doesnt buy Alltel a cable company will like Cox Cable, Charter, Comcast ETC. If a cable company doesnt buy them an investment firm will. I doubt Dobson will buy Alltel because Cellone is A band 850 and Alltel is B Band due to FCC regs a company can only hold one licence for 850 so Dobson would have to either cell Alltels towers or sell off the 850 license for Alltel. I dont think Dobson would try to buy Alltel, 30 Billion is alot of money.

sorry for the repeats I got carried away. Good luck

[RadioFoneGuy]

When I talk about other companies I try not to be predjudice. These are my opinions based on reading articles and talking to people in the industry.

[RadioFoneGuy]

Originally Posted by strunke Alltel is bigger then Dobson and couldn't purchase Alltel without going belly up and in debt trying to do so. The price Alltel is seeking is 30 billion. Dobson has a market cap of 1.29B, Alltel's is 24.79B...... The only possibilities are one of the national carriers (Sprint, VZW, Cingular, T-Mobile), private equity, or Alltel not selling and continuing to the 700 mhz spectrum auction/alltel buying metro PCS and other carriers, to expand. Other then that everything else is right on

My thoughts exactly, good call. It would be nice for Dobson to buy out Alltel but its to big of a fish. My bets on MA Bell or a big investment firm.

[thebeav]

conis

I live on Beaver Island and have looked into cellular issues in our neck of the woods. You may want to contact the Township Supervisor in Cross Village. I believe Cross Village was going to get a tower in their area last year. It was going to service Cross Village & a portion of I75. I believe it was going to be built by a private individual who was working with Cellular One. I was over there last spring & was told that the township supervisor was very active in the process. It appears from my view across the lake that the tower is complete. While cross Village is not an Island it is isolated and maybe a good model for BBI to follow.

[conis]

Originally Posted by thebeav conis I live on Beaver Island and have looked into cellular issues in our neck of the woods. You may want to contact the Township Supervisor in Cross Village. I believe Cross Village was going to get a tower in their area last year. It was going to service Cross Village & a portion of I75. I believe it was going to be built by a private individual who was working with Cellular One. I was over there last spring & was told that the township supervisor was very active in the process. It appears from my view across the lake that the tower is complete. While cross Village is not an Island it is isolated and maybe a good model for BBI to follow.

Thanks for the lead.

I was in Cross Village April of '06. Cell reception was spotty at best depending on "hill or valley". Impossible to use while moving... so pull over. There is a lot of tourist traffic in that area, especially summer mo's. I can see where an upgrade would do some good.

"Thebeav?" Good friend of mine is building on Beaver and refers to B.I. as "the beav". Doesn't live there (yet). Is this a common "Beaver Island ism" or do I know you? He's out there... Wicklow beach (sp) I believe, south of town 4-5 miles... on the bluff.

[thebeav]

I live a little north of your friends spot around Point Lapar. The Beav is not used much around here. We both probably just watched too much TV growing up.

I was in Cross Village in April of 06 when I found out about their tower plans. All of the locals commented on how proud the the Township Supervisor was of it. I just wanted to pass the information along to you. He might be a good person to ask to get a name of someone who you might entice to build a tower out your way. I think they got it built by the end of summer. It appears from my view across the water that there's a new structure up. I haven't been back yet to check the service out though.

Beaver Island is currently planning to put up several towers for wireless internet with the hope of co-locating some cellular service on them. Their preliminary tower location choices make more sense for cellular than wireless internet. The USDA has grants for wireless internet that might help get a tower or two up around BBI. Just my 2 cents worth..Good Luck

[RadioFoneGuy]

We built a tower in Cross village about 3 months ago. Its funny you say that Cross Village wanted a tower. We have been trying for 3 years to get one out there, but nobody wanted to see a tower.

we run into this alot, people want service but they dont want a tower.
we were working on a harbor springs tower because of low coverage but the tower was turned down, but the people want coverage? go figure.

[conis]

Originally Posted by Cellonetech We built a tower in Cross village about 3 months ago. Its funny you say that Cross Village wanted a tower. We have been trying for 3 years to get one out there, but nobody wanted to see a tower. we run into this alot, people want service but they dont want a tower. we were working on a harbor springs tower because of low coverage but the tower was turned down, but the people want coverage? go figure.

This could well turn out to be a good part of the problem on Bois Blanc. 80% griping about wanting better coverage... but don't want a tower in their back yard. Spoils the scenery.

This past week, there was a fatal accident on the island. I have no idea if improved cell coverage would have made any difference in reducing EMS response time, or not. But it does give them all something to think about . 3-5 minutes can sometimes make a life-death difference.

[thebeav]

"Its funny you say that Cross Village wanted a tower"
Not to nit pick but I never said that. My comment was on the perceived pride of the Township Supervisor in getting one. I did talked to about a dozen people in the town & they expressed the sentiment that improved coverage was a good thing.

I'm sure that there is almost always some vocal opposition to new towers in scenic rural areas. Anything new in a small rural town can cause controversy. When they were going to bring electric power out to Beaver Island way back when there was a group of people opposed to it because they felt it would ruin the island. Once a tower is up I believe they don't detract from the view if a little consideration for aesthetics is given when deciding on location.

Your point is well taken though. The fear in communities of what a new tower will it look like is real. If a community moves past that fear and actually puts a tower up most people appreciate the improvement in service and rarely if at all lament any aesthetic loss. Those that might usually make a habit of complaining and will typically focus on what local approved or benefited financially from it.

[RadioFoneGuy]

didnt mean to twist your words. People say towers are an eyesore. I think telephone and power poles all over the place are eyesore IMO.

[conis]

Originally Posted by Cellonetech didnt mean to twist your words. People say towers are an eyesore. I think telephone and power poles all over the place are eyesore IMO.

Reality is an brain-sore. Unfortunately we have to live with it?