Enhanced Coverage on Bois Blanc Island? (michigan)

[strunke]

Originally Posted by Cellonetech

I doubt that will happen. Alltel and Cell One have towers on both ends and on mackinac island. Some Radio company tried to get on the bridge and the bridge authority said no. Alltel and Cell One have pretty good coverage in the straights exept Bois Blanc.

Yeah coverage is great going over the bridge with Alltel. I believe the bridge is too far away from bois blanc island to cover it fully even if they were to some how get tower there. The only way to do it is to either put a tower on the island, or whoooolllle lotta repeaters, etc.

[RadioFoneGuy]

We have a couple of site south east of Cheboygen that are 4 miles directly across from Bois Blanc that may help alittle bit. The sites are currently EX NPI 1900 sites that are getting upgraded to High output 850 sites. Its not going to cover the whole island but its a straight shot across the water and should help alittle bit.

[conis]

That should help a lot. coverage on BBI east end gets progressivly worse the further east you head from the ferry dock.

When will these towers be upgraded?

[RadioFoneGuy]

Should be next month or two.

[conis]

Thanks for this information which is being relayed to islanders on the BBI site.

Now I tend to get my facts straight 50% of the time and mostly wrong the rest of the time. Perhaps you can humor me. I am an Alltell subscriber so thats what I pay attention to.

Am I correct in understanding that 1900 is sprint/ nextel... any others?

And that the 850 upgrade will improve Alltel and what others?

One nextel user on the island commented his service went from near nonexistant a year ago, to 3-4 bars this year. He is quite a bit east on BBI and about due north of the tower being discussed. There have been other numerous/frustrated users on the island unable to get a signal except at the ferry dock which is due north of Cheboygan.

I wonder if thats why my nextel now magically gets 3 to 4 bars inside the cabin now?? I'm on the east end...just past Snake Island. I used to have to drive down by the old boathouse restaurant before I could get a signal.

The "old boathouse" being the closest line of sight to Cheboygan, approaching the ferry dock. from the east end.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
another comment from a friend in Cheboygan/BBI :

The cell one tower was put up out by the 7 & 4 TV tower SE of cheboygan last summer I believe. Thats on a real high hill and over looks the water straight shot to the east end of the island. I live in cordwood sub just down from there and it has boosted my signal from one bar to five. There is about a mile of dead signal coming into cheboygan so if they increase the power out put it should also get signal all the way to cheboygan city limits.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I am glad you informed me/us of this improving situation. Where I am at, (east) I can get acceptable signal most days. Bad days I use a plug in omni antenna on the roof . I was just about to buy a booster repeater and yagi.

Maybe I won't need it now?

The west end of the island actually does fairly well between towers in Cheboygan, along 23 and now with towers on Mac Island. The east end has been no mans land more than 3-4 miles from the dock. Since 80% of the cottages/homes/camps are along BBI south shore, if those in the east end could get decent service, I believe they would be profoundly happy. Kind of a bummer to have to get in the car, drive several miles to make calls and check VM.

Now a REALLY stupid question: What would be the chance of some sort of directional antenna pointed towards BBI as part of this upgrade? Be a hell of a lot less expensive than island based equipment?

[strunke]

The cellone improvements won't change the alltel signal. Nextel runs off a sub 850 smr band....

[RadioFoneGuy]

Originally Posted by strunke

The cellone improvements won't change the alltel signal. Nextel runs off a sub 850 smr band....

Exactly correct. Cellone is 850 A Band, Alltel is 850 B Band and Nextel has little bits and pieces in between both of these bands.

Nextel may have put up a new tower.

Sprint (operated by IPCS) is 1900 only

Verizon just started operating in late 2006 is 1900 only.

Nextel will go to 850 for walkie talkie and 1900 CDMA for voice.

Alltel is 850 only CDMA

Cellone is 850 and 1900 GSM.

Some areas some carriers are stronger that others based on tower location. In some areas Cellone is stronger because the tower is closer, sometimes the Alltel tower may be closer and the signal will be stronger. This is all case by case basis. In some areas Cellone has a 3 to 1 tower ratio over Alltel, but the towers are 1900 and takes about 3 1900 towers to equal the coverage of 1 850 tower. 1900 is not a good choice for coverage in northern michigan thats why we are converting the 1900 that we can. We have to maintain some 1900 due to roaming agreements.

Your only real choices are Alltel or Cellone. Both these companies have the best coverage and the most towers.

[RadioFoneGuy]

Originally Posted by conis

Thanks for this information which is being relayed to islanders on the BBI site.

The west end of the island actually does fairly well between towers in Cheboygan, along 23 and now with towers on Mac Island. The east end has been no mans land more than 3-4 miles from the dock. Since 80% of the cottages/homes/camps are along BBI south shore, if those in the east end could get decent service, I believe they would be profoundly happy. Kind of a bummer to have to get in the car, drive several miles to make calls and check VM.

Now a REALLY stupid question: What would be the chance of some sort of directional antenna pointed towards BBI as part of this upgrade? Be a hell of a lot less expensive than island based equipment?

I cant speak for Alltel, I am not sure what towers they have on 23. We have a tower directly across from Point Aux pins and one directly across from the north western tip of the island. Far as pointing an antenna I brought it up but I think the towers may be set up to cover 23. The mac island sites are on buildings so im not sure of any benefits to Bois blanc.

[conis]

OK... I am getting there slowly but surely.

It sound to me like the upgrades will benefit Cellone subscribers more so than any others (logically). And likewsie not Alltel subscribers? I am learning as I go along here.

Don't most of the carriers have recriprocal roaming agreements? Or is limited to similar technology, etc. I know that as an Alltel subscriber, I am pretty well "roam-charge-free" though most of the lower peninsula. Exclusions would be pockets around Ann Arbor which is T-Mobile and?

Based on this, I assume my "signal" is being picked up by whatever carrier/tower is closest being it Alltel or otherwise, and vice versa. I am really not up to speed on this however somewhat aware of the different technologies used by different carriers. I guess I need to look up the tech abbreviations ie "gsm" for a little clearer understanding of how each works.

Allow me to rephrase my question referencing the tower upgrades:

Which carriers/subscribers would benefit, and which won't

Thanks again for your patience.

[clock3687]

Originally Posted by conis

OK... I am getting there slowly but surely.

It sound to me like the upgrades will benefit Cellone subscribers more so than any others (logically). And likewsie not Alltel subscribers? I am learning as I go along here.

Don't most of the carriers have recriprocal roaming agreements? Or is limited to similar technology, etc. I know that as an Alltel subscriber, I am pretty well "roam-charge-free" though most of the lower peninsula. Exclusions would be pockets around Ann Arbor which is T-Mobile and?

Based on this, I assume my "signal" is being picked up by whatever carrier/tower is closest being it Alltel or otherwise, and vice versa. I am really not up to speed on this however somewhat aware of the different technologies used by different carriers. I guess I need to look up the tech abbreviations ie "gsm" for a little clearer understanding of how each works.

Allow me to rephrase my question referencing the tower upgrades:

Which carriers/subscribers would benefit, and which won't

Thanks again for your patience.

This is a good thread, glad to see somethings being done to get you cell service. To put it simply all of the CELLONE improvements will help out the GSM side (like t-mobile and at&t). ALLTEL operates CDMA which a different technology. So, the improvements that CELLONE is making wouldn't benefit an ALLTEL subscriber because of the differences in technology. Likewise an ALLTEL improvement would benefit Verizon & Sprint customers, but not GSM companies.

[strunke]

Originally Posted by conis

OK... I am getting there slowly but surely.

It sound to me like the upgrades will benefit Cellone subscribers more so than any others (logically). And likewsie not Alltel subscribers? I am learning as I go along here.

Don't most of the carriers have recriprocal roaming agreements? Or is limited to similar technology, etc. I know that as an Alltel subscriber, I am pretty well "roam-charge-free" though most of the lower peninsula. Exclusions would be pockets around Ann Arbor which is T-Mobile and?

Based on this, I assume my "signal" is being picked up by whatever carrier/tower is closest being it Alltel or otherwise, and vice versa. I am really not up to speed on this however somewhat aware of the different technologies used by different carriers. I guess I need to look up the tech abbreviations ie "gsm" for a little clearer understanding of how each works.

Allow me to rephrase my question referencing the tower upgrades:

Which carriers/subscribers would benefit, and which won't

Thanks again for your patience.

Well, Alltel, Sprint, Verizon, USCC, and a lot of other local carriers have a technology called CDMA. T-Mobile, CellOne, Cingular, a few local providers have a technology called GSM. These are two separate cell phone technologies and a phone can't roam on both unless it is dual technology but one which is compatible with both is not currently sold in the US. Nextel and SouthernLinc use a technology called iDen (which will not be around for too much longer, Sprint will be replacing the iDen with CDMA, which could potentially mean that Sprint will finally have CDMA on the 850 band, thus vastly improving coverage in rural areas, but that won't happen for a while now.) iDen cannot roam on any other carrier in the US except the two mentioned. Sprint does have dual mode CDMA/iDen phones.....

With those upgrades, the only carriers that benefit directly or indirectly are Cellular One, T-Mobile, and Cingular. Which use dobson's network in that area.

Verizon, Sprint, and Alltel are the main ones that benefit from any Alltel improvements in that area. When you are down in the Detroit area you roam on Sprint and Verizon because Alltel doesn't have a license from the FCC to serve the detroit metro area and the thumb area.

Here is a list of all the carriers and what technology they use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...hone_companies

Keep in mind it lists Alltel as having GSM, they only have this out west for roaming revenue and is not accessible by their customers, only to other GSM carriers. Because a lot of those areas have no GSM coverage what so ever, so out there Alltel has a corner on the market for GSM. They simultaneously run GSM and CDMA for their own customers.

[clock3687]

Originally Posted by Cellonetech

Exactly correct. Cellone is 850 A Band, Alltel is 850 B Band and Nextel has little bits and pieces in between both of these bands.

Nextel may have put up a new tower.

Sprint (operated by IPCS) is 1900 only

Verizon just started operating in late 2006 is 1900 only.

Nextel will go to 850 for walkie talkie and 1900 CDMA for voice.

Alltel is 850 only CDMA

Cellone is 850 and 1900 GSM.

Some areas some carriers are stronger that others based on tower location. In some areas Cellone is stronger because the tower is closer, sometimes the Alltel tower may be closer and the signal will be stronger. This is all case by case basis. In some areas Cellone has a 3 to 1 tower ratio over Alltel, but the towers are 1900 and takes about 3 1900 towers to equal the coverage of 1 850 tower. 1900 is not a good choice for coverage in northern michigan thats why we are converting the 1900 that we can. We have to maintain some 1900 due to roaming agreements.

Your only real choices are Alltel or Cellone. Both these companies have the best coverage and the most towers.

Cellone, based on that, after your agreements are up will you take down the 1900 and operate strictly 850 in Northern michigan. Doesnt operating dual band 850/1900 have its advantages?

[strunke]

Originally Posted by clock3687

Cellone, based on that, after your agreements are up will you take down the 1900 and operate strictly 850 in Northern michigan. Doesnt operating dual band 850/1900 have its advantages?

Not where they are located. The only advantage to 1900 is capacity, which is not an issue....

[conis]

Competition...

The first "cell phone" I had ever seen was in the 80s, about the size of a brief case with a handset. I would imagine service was spotty in urban areas.

My first phone (early 90's) was an "improved" bag phone. I can't recall what my carrier was except to say one service was in a transition ot overtaking another and to prevent roaming I had to guess which zone I was in and enter in a long access code. Reception was hidious on a good day. $1.00 a minute.

I would say things have progressed a tad?

In saying this, I was wondering why in blazes all the companies don't use the same standardized technology, like wired phones, televisions, and 50 other examples I could think of?

Competition is why. And competition is what has driven rates down to where they are and below the cost of wired technology.

I would assume tecnology will continue to evolve and at some point some technology will overtake all others as a defacto standard.

I can also see sat-phone tech overtaking cell tech. 20 years?

Any comments?

[conis]

Whoops, missed my own point:

When Cellone upgrades this tower, Alltel will have no choice but to equal or one up to be competitive and maintain customer base. I Think I quoted a comment (above) by a friend in the Cheboygan area that switched from alltel to cellone because of improved coverage in the area.

And thats how it goes around and comes around.

[RadioFoneGuy]

Correct on the 1900. We prefere 850 for coverage and offset the need for the capacity with the 1900 in and around high density areas like Traverse City, Petoskey ETC. In some areas in southern MI we only have the 1900 licence because our roaming partner Cenntenial Wireless has the license for 850 A band down there.

We have to keep some 1900 for another year because we have a roaming agreement with T-mobile which used to only give there customers 1900 only phones.

We have to upgrade these towers due to being older technology. These were sites we picked up after buying another company. Im not sure what Alltel has out that way, they may have different priorities that come before that. I have heard thru friends that they are focusing most of their efforts on EVDO which has not been successfull due to hardware and software problems in Grand Rapids.

We do the same thing thou. In some areas Alltel is stronger and we have a drive test team that is constantly driving and testing areas to see what we can improve. It takes a year just to get funding, talk to townships, leasing from existing towers and getting the equipment out there.

[RadioFoneGuy]

Your safe with your Alltel phone for now, the upgrade may only be noticeable on main land. Im curious to see who is going to buy Alltel. If its a CDMA carrier you will be in good shape. If a GSM carrier buys Alltel they will overlay the whole market and try to force everyone over to GSM. The first year will suck untill all the bugs are worked out. For Alltels sake I hope a CDMA Carrier will buy them.

[strunke]

Alltel's EVDO is running great. From just south of Cadillac all the way across the state about 40 miles north of saginaw and down to the state line is all EVDO and has been since november i believe possibly earlier.

I hope Alltel gets bought out by a CDMA carrier as well....

[Alienware_51]

Recently Alltel put new panels on a tower near me, here's the question, Are all the new panels Alltel puts up all EV-DO Rev. 0 compatible?? If thats what they are doing, why won't they just turn the EV-DO on so people can use it (I know it's easier said than done)

sorry about going a little off-topic...

[strunke]

Originally Posted by Alienware_51

Recently Alltel put new panels on a tower near me, here's the question, Are all the new panels Alltel puts up all EV-DO Rev. 0 compatible?? If thats what they are doing, why won't they just turn the EV-DO on so people can use it (I know it's easier said than done)

sorry about going a little off-topic...

With EVDO the panels don't change, just equipment within the tower base station and the "switch" change. That is how I understand it anyway.

[Alienware_51]

ah i see, i hope they turn on most of their EVDO up here, that would be great.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by strunke

With EVDO the panels don't change, just equipment within the tower base station and the "switch" change. That is how I understand it anyway.

That statement may or may not be correct depending on the situation. In my area, for example, Verizon is the Cellular B carrier and also holds some PCS spectrum. Their voice is exclusively on the Cellular band, but their EVDO is exclusively on PCS. Switching cards on the BTS and the switch was one step Verizon had to go through, but on all their old sites, they had to swap out ONE out of the four panels per sector with a 1900 antenna, because the older panels were not capable of doing so. On their more recently built sites with only one panel per sector, no changes were needed.

[strunke]

Originally Posted by Andy

That statement may or may not be correct depending on the situation. In my area, for example, Verizon is the Cellular B carrier and also holds some PCS spectrum. Their voice is exclusively on the Cellular band, but their EVDO is exclusively on PCS. Switching cards on the BTS and the switch was one step Verizon had to go through, but on all their old sites, they had to swap out ONE out of the four panels per sector with a 1900 antenna, because the older panels were not capable of doing so. On their more recently built sites with only one panel per sector, no changes were needed.

Alltel has EVDO on the cellular band here. I would imagine that if they are just building or adding panels then they will definitely make them compatible with EVDO for future expansion....

[RadioFoneGuy]

Thats cool they got it working. My buddy said they were having some sort of IP issue in Grand Rapids. Alltel up here is straight 850, so at the Cell site its just changing the card and some sites required an additional backhaul to Grand Rapids. I know they have to make card and software changes in the switch but not sure what else. You will have check to see if its all over or just near bigger towns. Normally the carrier only keep it in the more populated areas due to the addition cost of the backhaul to support it. Blasting Broadband out in the boonies probably wont pay the additional cost.
Can you tell on your phone when not using data if your in EVDO? On my nokia you cant see until you open a browser. On my moto I could tell what data I was on with out opening the browser.

[Alienware_51]

on my razr V3c I could tell when I was using evdo, because instead of having a green 'D' sign next to the signal indicator, it said EV in red.

[RadioFoneGuy]

I would hate to have 850 voice and 1900 data. I would rather have all the same freq. You wont be able to tell by the tower at all if it has EVDO. Same goes for UMTS. Things may change in the future with the talks of using 2100 like some companies would like. Either 2 types of antennas or a dual band antenna.

[RadioFoneGuy]

I like that feature on Motos. I think my moto had a triangle or something.

[strunke]

Here is a map of the EVDO in MI. Dark blue is EVDO, light blue is 1x (detroit and chicago area is 1x roaming though until the Sprint agreement goes through). They have EVDO in Marquette, Ste. Sault Marie, Houghton, Iron Mountain, and Escanaba. In those cities they are just covering the populated areas. But the lower michigan is covered almost completely. The plan to eventually have all the 1x covered in EVDO......I used a tether on my last trip to Marquette up 131 (friend drove). It was nice, I wonder when they are going to finally get the Sprint EVDO roaming going for Alltel handset users........

[RadioFoneGuy]

From looking at the map it still looks like our area up north is still 1X. Your area may be off of another Switch/BSC? Maybe why yours is up and running. I hope Alltel gets it working up here as well, it will force Dobson to change over to UMTS faster. I think Alltel will do the same thing in the Northern Lower Pennisula as they did in the UP, probably just stick to the main towns. Backhauls are not cheap especially all the bandwidth EVDO can produce.

To me I dont really care to have 3G on a cell phone, just on my laptop with and air card.

[conis]

Moving this thread back to the original topic?

Question for Cellonetech:

Somewhere I got the information the TDS telecom (On Bois Blanc) uses microwave relay to transmit land line service to the mainland?

I have since been told NOT. (?) Underwater cable?

From Cheboygan a TALL steel tower can be seen west of Pointe Aux Pins, which I had assumed was the TDS relay tower?

Any insights?