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TKR · 02-11-2002, 3:04 PM

I have several technical questions about Verizon's new extended network (Sprint & Alltel) and how it works. Staff at the Verizon store were of no real help.

Q1) Are the full Sprint and Alltel networks included in the America's Choice plans, including where they overlap Verizon's own network, such as in Atlanta? Or are only certain portions of those networks included only where they are necessary to extend Verizon's network, such as in MN?

Q2) What is the PRL hierarchy? In other words, if the phone cannot get an acceptable Verizon CDMA signal, which signal will it look for first: the extended network CDMA / PCS CDMA, or Verizon's own analog?

Q3) Is Verizon's own analog network considered roaming under the Americas choice plans, or does "roaming" only apply to off network analog?

Q4) Is there call in progress handoff between Verizon' CDMA and the Extended network CDMA/PCS CDMA?

Thanks,

Tom in Georgia

larry · 02-11-2002, 3:29 PM

One other question I want to add to tom's: Are Sprint affiliate areas such as US Unwired, Airgate PCS, or Alamosa PCS included in the extended network? Their affilate areas make up a good portion of theor network. Two examples where I believe the affiliates offer Sprint coverage but no Alltel or Verizon, (I could be wrong), is in Lake Havasu city, Arizona and Eureka, CA.

Craptain · 03-30-2003, 9:06 AM

I don't mean to dig this one up, but I was wondering about this as well... Also in the extended network my data does not work. I can use my text but no GIN or internet. It is an Alltel area (Youngstown Ohio)

AnthroMatt · 03-30-2003, 9:30 AM

In response to TKR:

1)No, only portions are included in the AC plan. Otherwise you wouldn't read so many posts about people getting upset when SprintPCS was dropped from various PRL updates.

2) Excellent question, I have no idea.

3)Verizon's own analog network is not roaming. This I can say for certain as I was using analog exclusively last summer while working up in northern California

4)I highly doubt it, as switching from once CDMA carrier (Verizon) to an extended network partner (say Alltel) would result in the phone locking onto a new SID.

Larry: I don't know about everywhere, but I know I was on "Roam" with my Verizon phone last summer when I took a trip to Eureka, so it would seem you are correct, the affiliate is definitely not included there, but perhaps they are elsewhere in the country.

Craptain:
Verizon states that services such as GIN, the web, voicemail alerts, etc. may not work on the extended network, even if it is a digital service.

BTW Craptain, doesn't it seem odd that you have a scale to weigh a battery but no ruler to measure it? Hmmmm [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img]

scottb · 03-30-2003, 9:59 AM

In my area I've found that most services, like Mobile Web and text messaging, work while roaming on Alltel, but not on others (US Cellular).

spridle · 03-30-2003, 10:09 AM

1. No, not all of Sprint and Alltel networks are part of the AC plan only certain portions. Visit Just a Lurkers site for a listing of sids/networks/carriers in the current AC PRL. Be advised the info on JL's site is not to be considered as "offical," and he has only posted it for information purposes only.

2. JL's site will answer this question.

3. You are not billed roaming charges to use VZW analog.

4. Not sure about this one, but my guess is the call would probably drop.

Buickman · 03-30-2003, 11:20 AM

In response to question #2, my phone looks for a Verizon analog signal before a roaming partner's CDMA signal. I know that for now not all of Alltel's network is included, because if it was than there would be service in northern WI and the UP of MI, but there is none unfortunately. There are overlaps though, in the Mineapolis MN area you can pick up Sprint towers as extended area in the Verizon "holes".

AnthroMatt · 03-30-2003, 11:45 AM

It makes sense that Verizon would set their analog service at a higher priority than another carrier's digital service. After all, why should Verizon pay for you to use someone else's network when you can use their own analog one?

Airb330 · 03-30-2003, 11:55 AM

Larry, there are areas in Arizona that Sprint serves, but not Alltel or Verizon? Just found it curious since they are both 800 providers at least in Phoenix. I suppose those far out places where the 800 carriers are mom and pop cells, thats where Sprint would be used?

CDMA · 03-30-2003, 1:19 PM

About question #4.

It is normal for a call to be switched to another network, even if it is another SID number. I drive out of Verizon's network heading to northern Michigan frequently and the calls are handed off, even if they are handed to anolog. It's been this way for many years with most carriers. Pretty cool isn't it.

About Question #2.

The phone searches priority levels in the roaming list. If one is not available, then it goes down the list to whatever carriers are in the next priority lever.

AnthroMatt · 03-30-2003, 1:28 PM

What I find amusing is that Sprint PCS in Columbus OH is part of the Verizon extended network on the AC plan, but according to JL's site, it is a priority 8, whereas priority 5 is a roaming carrier. However, I suppose there is no reason why someone would need to go off Verizon in a major city like Columbus, so I guess it is a curiosity rather than anything of major importance.

CDMA · 03-30-2003, 1:44 PM

Some of it has to do with roaming cost issues along with coverage and call quality/complaints. If they get a better deal from Alltel with the same coverage, then they will use Alltel.

mcf04581 · 03-31-2003, 10:01 AM

Verizon dropped alot of the Sprint PRL's from the AC plans because of alot of customer complaints about service. One example is Kalamazoo, it was aweful their with Sprint, but from what I have heard, is much better now with Alltel.

CDMA · 03-31-2003, 12:18 PM

Makes sense. Way back in 1994 my Ameritech phone roamed on CenturyTel (now Alltel) in Kalamazoo and even way back then I never had problems in that area on that network.

roamer1 · 03-31-2003, 11:00 PM

Some comments:

There is some overlap between VZW/ALLTEL, VZW/SPCS, and VZW/other extended network carriers, but not all that much. Only a few markets (namely New Orleans and Mobile, AL -- areas where VZW is rather weak [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] ) have all three (VZW, ALLTEL, and some other preferred carrier -- SPCS in NOLA and Mobile) as "available".

General system preference: VZW digital, VZW analog, ALLTEL digital, ALLTEL analog, other preferred carrier (incl. SPCS/USCC/etc.) digital, other preferred carrier analog, roaming (with no preference of digital over analog.) One odd exception: ALLTEL is preferred over VZW in a few areas VZW acquired from other carriers in the Southeast that have yet to be converted from IS-136 TDMA to CDMA.

Intersystem handoff isn't nearly as common as you might think -- it requires cooperation from the carriers on both sides. If adjacent carriers hate or used to hate each other there won't be intersystem handoff. I can think of lots of cases where adjacent carriers hate or used to hate each other and there is no intersystem handoff... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img]

As for SPCS affiliates being included in AC, if the affiliate uses a SID also used in a "native" SPCS market, the affiliate coverage will be included. (Here in the Southeast, SID 4103 Alabama and SID 4159 New Orleans both include large amounts of US Unwired coverage.)

-SC

Hamop · 05-22-2003, 4:02 PM

For what it's worth:
We were recently in Youngstown, Ohio and the phone said Verizon extended network. The "R" indicator was flashsing on and off.
I called VZ and did confirm that there would be no roaming charges.
Service was digital and the only thing I noticed that didn't work was that my little e-mail indicator did not come on even though there was a message from my nephew.
I was obviously on someone else's network and it seemed to work just fine.
Signed--Really like Verizon (hamop)

AnthroMatt · 05-22-2003, 4:27 PM

I believe you were on Alltel up in Youngstown

jayc · 05-22-2003, 11:35 PM

GIN/mobile web etc work fine on extended network- alltel here in the tri-cities.

02-11-2002, 3:04 PM	#1
TKR Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 445 Provider(s): AT&T Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions I have several technical questions about Verizon's new extended network (Sprint & Alltel) and how it works. Staff at the Verizon store were of no real help. Q1) Are the full Sprint and Alltel networks included in the America's Choice plans, including where they overlap Verizon's own network, such as in Atlanta? Or are only certain portions of those networks included only where they are necessary to extend Verizon's network, such as in MN? Q2) What is the PRL hierarchy? In other words, if the phone cannot get an acceptable Verizon CDMA signal, which signal will it look for first: the extended network CDMA / PCS CDMA, or Verizon's own analog? Q3) Is Verizon's own analog network considered roaming under the Americas choice plans, or does "roaming" only apply to off network analog? Q4) Is there call in progress handoff between Verizon' CDMA and the Extended network CDMA/PCS CDMA? Thanks, Tom in Georgia

03-30-2003, 9:06 AM	#3
Craptain Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Reno these days Posts: 670 Phone(s): Motorola Provider(s): VZW Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Auctions	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions I don't mean to dig this one up, but I was wondering about this as well... Also in the extended network my data does not work. I can use my text but no GIN or internet. It is an Alltel area (Youngstown Ohio)

03-30-2003, 9:59 AM	#5
scottb Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greensboro, NC, U.S.A Posts: 1,188 Provider(s): Verizon Wireless Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions In my area I've found that most services, like Mobile Web and text messaging, work while roaming on Alltel, but not on others (US Cellular).

03-30-2003, 10:09 AM	#6
spridle Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions 1. No, not all of Sprint and Alltel networks are part of the AC plan only certain portions. Visit Just a Lurkers site for a listing of sids/networks/carriers in the current AC PRL. Be advised the info on JL's site is not to be considered as "offical," and he has only posted it for information purposes only. 2. JL's site will answer this question. 3. You are not billed roaming charges to use VZW analog. 4. Not sure about this one, but my guess is the call would probably drop.

03-30-2003, 11:20 AM	#7
Buickman Gearhead/Gadget freak Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Bye Bye MN, Hello Cali Posts: 864 Phone(s): BB 9550, LG enV2, Retired: BB Curve, Moto Z6tv, E815,V710, Nokia 3285, Nokia 6185 Provider(s): Verizon on both phones Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts Images: 1	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions In response to question #2, my phone looks for a Verizon analog signal before a roaming partner's CDMA signal. I know that for now not all of Alltel's network is included, because if it was than there would be service in northern WI and the UP of MI, but there is none unfortunately. There are overlaps though, in the Mineapolis MN area you can pick up Sprint towers as extended area in the Verizon "holes". __________________ Cars became my job, so phones became my hobby. Car's are not my job anymore, but phones are still a fun hobby.

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02-11-2002, 3:29 PM	#2
larry Go Angels! Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 13,384 Phone(s): LG Rumor 2, Sanyo Katana II Provider(s): Sprint Thanks: 29 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts Images: 154 My Auctions	One other question I want to add to tom's: Are Sprint affiliate areas such as US Unwired, Airgate PCS, or Alamosa PCS included in the extended network? Their affilate areas make up a good portion of theor network. Two examples where I believe the affiliates offer Sprint coverage but no Alltel or Verizon, (I could be wrong), is in Lake Havasu city, Arizona and Eureka, CA.

03-30-2003, 9:30 AM	#4
AnthroMatt Big Meanie Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 8,630 Phone(s): BlackBerry Tour, Sanyo 4920 Provider(s): Sprint + Airave Thanks: 11 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts Images: 1	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions In response to TKR: 1)No, only portions are included in the AC plan. Otherwise you wouldn't read so many posts about people getting upset when SprintPCS was dropped from various PRL updates. 2) Excellent question, I have no idea. 3)Verizon's own analog network is not roaming. This I can say for certain as I was using analog exclusively last summer while working up in northern California 4)I highly doubt it, as switching from once CDMA carrier (Verizon) to an extended network partner (say Alltel) would result in the phone locking onto a new SID. Larry: I don't know about everywhere, but I know I was on "Roam" with my Verizon phone last summer when I took a trip to Eureka, so it would seem you are correct, the affiliate is definitely not included there, but perhaps they are elsewhere in the country. Craptain: Verizon states that services such as GIN, the web, voicemail alerts, etc. may not work on the extended network, even if it is a digital service. BTW Craptain, doesn't it seem odd that you have a scale to weigh a battery but no ruler to measure it? Hmmmm [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/img] __________________ Twitter

03-30-2003, 11:45 AM	#8
AnthroMatt Big Meanie Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 8,630 Phone(s): BlackBerry Tour, Sanyo 4920 Provider(s): Sprint + Airave Thanks: 11 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts Images: 1	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions It makes sense that Verizon would set their analog service at a higher priority than another carrier's digital service. After all, why should Verizon pay for you to use someone else's network when you can use their own analog one? __________________ Twitter

03-30-2003, 11:55 AM	#9
Airb330 Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Philadelphia, PA Posts: 3,526 Phone(s): BB 8330 Provider(s): Sprint PCS Devices: iPod Nano (Black), XM Radio Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Images: 3	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions Larry, there are areas in Arizona that Sprint serves, but not Alltel or Verizon? Just found it curious since they are both 800 providers at least in Phoenix. I suppose those far out places where the 800 carriers are mom and pop cells, thats where Sprint would be used?

03-30-2003, 1:19 PM	#10
CDMA Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Allen Park Michigan Posts: 540 Phone(s): Casio G'z one boulder Provider(s): Alltel Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions About question #4. It is normal for a call to be switched to another network, even if it is another SID number. I drive out of Verizon's network heading to northern Michigan frequently and the calls are handed off, even if they are handed to anolog. It's been this way for many years with most carriers. Pretty cool isn't it. About Question #2. The phone searches priority levels in the roaming list. If one is not available, then it goes down the list to whatever carriers are in the next priority lever.

03-30-2003, 1:28 PM	#11
AnthroMatt Big Meanie Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mesa, AZ Posts: 8,630 Phone(s): BlackBerry Tour, Sanyo 4920 Provider(s): Sprint + Airave Thanks: 11 Thanked 14 Times in 11 Posts Images: 1	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions What I find amusing is that Sprint PCS in Columbus OH is part of the Verizon extended network on the AC plan, but according to JL's site, it is a priority 8, whereas priority 5 is a roaming carrier. However, I suppose there is no reason why someone would need to go off Verizon in a major city like Columbus, so I guess it is a curiosity rather than anything of major importance. __________________ Twitter

03-30-2003, 1:44 PM	#12
CDMA Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Allen Park Michigan Posts: 540 Phone(s): Casio G'z one boulder Provider(s): Alltel Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions Some of it has to do with roaming cost issues along with coverage and call quality/complaints. If they get a better deal from Alltel with the same coverage, then they will use Alltel.

03-31-2003, 10:01 AM	#13
mcf04581 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 531 Phone(s): T-Mobile SDA, Motorola Razr V3c, Samsung T-809 Provider(s): T-Mobile, Verizon Wireless Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Auctions	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions Verizon dropped alot of the Sprint PRL's from the AC plans because of alot of customer complaints about service. One example is Kalamazoo, it was aweful their with Sprint, but from what I have heard, is much better now with Alltel. __________________ To Each Their Own

03-31-2003, 12:18 PM	#14
CDMA Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Allen Park Michigan Posts: 540 Phone(s): Casio G'z one boulder Provider(s): Alltel Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions Makes sense. Way back in 1994 my Ameritech phone roamed on CenturyTel (now Alltel) in Kalamazoo and even way back then I never had problems in that area on that network.

03-31-2003, 11:00 PM	#15
roamer1 In Memoriam Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sandy Springs, GA Posts: 1,749 Phone(s): Palm Treo 680, Sierra AirCard 860, Moto L2 & L6, Nokia 6015i Provider(s): lots of orange, a little Little Rock blue Devices: way too many :) Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts Images: 2	Verizon's "new" extended network: questions Some comments: There is some overlap between VZW/ALLTEL, VZW/SPCS, and VZW/other extended network carriers, but not all that much. Only a few markets (namely New Orleans and Mobile, AL -- areas where VZW is rather weak [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] ) have all three (VZW, ALLTEL, and some other preferred carrier -- SPCS in NOLA and Mobile) as "available". General system preference: VZW digital, VZW analog, ALLTEL digital, ALLTEL analog, other preferred carrier (incl. SPCS/USCC/etc.) digital, other preferred carrier analog, roaming (with no preference of digital over analog.) One odd exception: ALLTEL is preferred over VZW in a few areas VZW acquired from other carriers in the Southeast that have yet to be converted from IS-136 TDMA to CDMA. Intersystem handoff isn't nearly as common as you might think -- it requires cooperation from the carriers on both sides. If adjacent carriers hate or used to hate each other there won't be intersystem handoff. I can think of lots of cases where adjacent carriers hate or used to hate each other and there is no intersystem handoff... [img]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/img] As for SPCS affiliates being included in AC, if the affiliate uses a SID also used in a "native" SPCS market, the affiliate coverage will be included. (Here in the Southeast, SID 4103 Alabama and SID 4159 New Orleans both include large amounts of US Unwired coverage.) -SC __________________ "Never put off until tomorrow what you can do today. There might be a law against it by that time." -/usr/games/fortune sticking it out at you...

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