AT&T Warranty Dilemma. I Need Advice.

[Gamer03]

Here is our dilemma. My dad has the AT&T Tilt. About two weeks ago, one of the keys on the slide out keyboard fell off. The sliding keyboard mechanism is now getting harder to slide out. We took it into an authorized AT&T store and had them take a look at it. They said to call the Warranty Exchange phone number since it is still under warranty (we bought four phones with them as a new account on 7/5/2008). We finally had a chance to call them today, and they said that it would be a refurbished phone even though the sales rep at two local authorized AT&T stores as well as the acting managers said that it would be a new phone. To make sure we didn't damage our two PDA's on our account we also have monthly insurance on both of the two primary lines.

Today we called AT&T Warranty. They told us that the phone would be refurbished. According to AT&T's website, they have a table that "provides our Warranty Service Eligibility Requirements." At the bottom of the link, it says "Equipment replacements are refurbished devices only and will be under warranty for 90 days, or the remainder of your original device warranty, whichever is longer." There is still contradicting information if you read the table and read this statement.

Answer Center | AT&T, formerly Cingular

According to their table, "the eligibility period from 31 to 90 days from purchase date, you will receive a refurbished device." "From 31 days to 365 days from purchase date, you will receive a new device". Both the authorized store closest to me and the authorized store downtown said it would be brand new since it is still under warranty. When talking to the warranty department today, they looked up the information and told him it would be refurbished. My dad read their information on their site, and they put him on hold for 25 minutes. They came back and said that they would transfer him to customer service. He talked with a rep there and they said that AT&T would give him a new phone through the warranty program if he went into one of the local stores. Then they had the audacity to tell him that if that doesn't work he can buy a phone himself, pay for it himself, and then hung up on him as soon as they said that.

He called the local store and they said the "manager is busy and he will call you back if you leave your phone number." That was about 40 minutes ago. Apparently AT&T doesn't care about their customers and lies to them and gives them the run around. This is absolutely ridiculous especially if this is how AT&T likes to handle situations. We are definitely not happy especially with the attitude of reps that we dealt with on the phone. We called back and they told us the same thing. Also, they must like to list contradicting information on their website.

Thanks in advice for any help. We will try to call back for a third time and ask to speak to a supervisor. They better not hang up on us again. If they do, then it might be time to consider our possibilities.

[Alienware_51]

I'm sorry to hear about all the crap at&t is making you go through to get a replacement phone. If the manager doesn't call you back tonight, I would go right down to the store you called and asked for the manager again. Explain the situation and tell him that the reps on the phone told you to come down here to get a new replacement Tilt, if he says it will be refurbished, print out the at&t webpage that shows that phones from 31 days to 365 days from purchase date, will be new. That way you have more facts to back yourself up and less leverage for him to work with to weasel his was out of giving you the new phone. I think you'll have a better chance to get the new phone if you go there in person, rather than discuss it over the phone. I don't get why at&t makes it so hard to replace the phones, its not like they make a lot of money off of them anyway.

[Charlyee]

Gamer, I am very sorry that you are going through this. I will admit I have no fist hand experience with warranty exchange but looking at the numbers it almost looks like a misprint & it should be 31-90 days new phone & 91-365 refurbished phone. I am not aware of anyone getting a new phone as warranty replacement for a 6 month old phone.

Having said that you are right AT&T should stand behind what they said.

I agree with Alienware take the printout to the store manager.

Good luck.
Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

[hme83]

I hope you are able to get it worked out - I certainly agree that if store personnel (esp. a manager) indicated the Tilt would be replaced with a new device, then the store manager should stand behind his word - regardless of what at&t's policy is.

The table doesn't do so very clearly, but what it is trying to delineate between is a phone originally purchased as a refurb vs. originally purchased as new. For the first 30 days, the warranty is not applicable as you can return a defective device to the point of purchase for an exchange (for a new device) under the initial return period guarantee. At the 31st day, exchanges for a defective product will have to be done under the warranty program - and phones sold as "refurbs" only come with a 90 day warranty; phones sold as "new" come with a one year warranty.

Your Dad may want to consider contacting HTC directly if he's not satisfied with what the at&t retailer will do for him. They may be more accommodating; I don't have any personal experience with at&t's warranty exchange process either - but I do know they use refurbs, and the program is in place as a convenience to the customer. The "con" to using it can be that you get a refurb in exchange - but the "pro" is you aren't without a phone while the manufacturer evaluates and repairs/replaces it. And of course in many cases, a refurb can be just as good as, if not better than, a new product; at least in theory they have all been individually inspected and updated with the most recent firmware, etc.

Good luck!!

[Gamer03]

Thanks for the replies Alienware_51, Charlyee, and hme83. I appreciate it. I was thinking the same thing about a misprint. We still printed the page out. We are mad about how AT&T is giving us the runaround. Also it is impolite on hanging up on a customer. If we did this to our customers, then we wouldn't be getting a lot of tours. I tell you, if this keeps up, then down the road we might be switching back to Verizon. At least with them, we never felt like we were getting the runaround. We will either be calling tomorrow and/or going into the store ourselves. First the rep setting up our AT&T account wrong (where they put us on two FS plans instead of one) and having to call in three times to get it fixed and now this makes us wonder about AT&T.

[Charlyee]

Thanks Hme, so it is defining the warranty period of a new phone vs a refurbished one. It is not saying whether the exchange phone will be new or refurb, leaving it to their discretion I suppose.

Verizon does in-store warranty exchange but it is always a refurb.

Thanks for clearing those numbers up.
Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

[Gamer03]

Originally Posted by Charlyee

Thanks Hme, so it is defining the warranty period of a new phone vs a refurbished one. It is not saying whether the exchange phone will be new or refurb, leaving it to their discretion I suppose.

Verizon does in-store warranty exchange but it is always a refurb.

Thanks for clearing those numbers up.
Palm850/v0100 Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; IEMobile 7.11)

It does make sense. I wish their website was more precise, though. That is what the rep on the phone said. It is up to their discretion.

[Mobile Mike]

Originally Posted by Gamer03

It does make sense. I wish their website was more precise, though. That is what the rep on the phone said. It is up to their discretion.

This is the problem with "legalese" terms and conditions. In an attempt at being precise, they end up being contradictory or downright ambiguous, not to mention confusing.

I agree with everyone else here. You have the printed information regarding receiving a new, non refurbished phone, from the 31st to 365th day of ownership. So you are within your rights to demand a new phone.

Hopefully this will work out for you Erik, as you've had enough problems with AT&T since you started back with them last Summer. Good luck.

[efparri]

Originally Posted by Mobile Mike

This is the problem with "legalese" terms and conditions. In an attempt at being precise, they end up being contradictory or downright ambiguous, not to mention confusing.

I agree with everyone else here. You have the printed information regarding receiving a new, non refurbished phone, from the 31st to 365th day of ownership. So you are within your rights to demand a new phone.

Hopefully this will work out for you Erik, as you've had enough problems with AT&T since you started back with them last Summer. Good luck.

You are incorrect. As stated above, the table is describing the warranty periods of a new versus a refurbished phone. It is not describing what phone you will get in a warranty exchange. Look at it this way. If nothing went wrong with your original phone, after sixth month you will stiil have a used phone. Why should you expect the carrier to replace your used phone with a new phone?

This is the table title:
The below table provides our Warranty Service Eligibility Requirements:

[Jay2TheRescue]

I've never had a problem with ATT/Cingular refurbs. They've always looked/worked like new.

That being said, when I was having problems with my Tilt I did take it back to the store and exchanged it for a new one before the 30 days were up. I haven't had any further problems that weren't caused by me hacking the phone...

-Jay

[hme83]

Originally Posted by Gamer03

It does make sense. I wish their website was more precise, though. That is what the rep on the phone said. It is up to their discretion.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I agree - at&t does a poor job of making certain the customer website documentation clearly reflects their intent. And in my opinion, if their internal documentation that the customer service reps use is as ambiguous, it's no wonder customers receive conflicting sets of information.

How difficult would it have been to label the column "Device Purchased As" (or something along those lines), rather than "Type of Device". lol. Although my recommendation would probably be confusing to some as well when it comes to the "replacement device" categories.

[Gamer03]

Originally Posted by hme83

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. I agree - at&t does a poor job of making certain the customer website documentation clearly reflects their intent. And in my opinion, if their internal documentation that the customer service reps use is as ambiguous, it's no wonder customers receive conflicting sets of information.

How difficult would it have been to label the column "Device Purchased As" (or something along those lines), rather than "Type of Device". lol. Although my recommendation would probably be confusing to some as well when it comes to the "replacement device" categories.

I agree with you there. They need better wording with this area of their website.

[Gamer03]

Well the best that they can do is offer a refurb. According to the local manager, the phone is basically new (the case/housing are according to the manager). The only thing that is original is the circuits. We will go ahead and call them up hopefully today (if not by the end of the week since we will be extremely busy this week) and get a refurb phone ordered through them, unless we get a rep who is willing to give us a new phone (apparently it is up to their discretion). Then my dad said that he will probably use my old Tilt and keep the refurb as a backup. Either that or sell both and put the money towards a different phone since he hasn't made up his mind yet.

[Charlyee]

Originally Posted by Gamer03

Well the best that they can do is offer a refurb. According to the local manager, the phone is basically new (the case/housing are according to the manager). The only thing that is original is the circuits. We will go ahead and call them up hopefully today (if not by the end of the week since we will be extremely busy this week) and get a refurb phone ordered through them, unless we get a rep who is willing to give us a new phone (apparently it is up to their discretion). Then my dad said that he will probably use my old Tilt and keep the refurb as a backup. Either that or sell both and put the money towards a different phone since he hasn't made up his mind yet.

Gamer, thanks for the update. All that "vague& amorphous" language was quite confusing..

Well since you are much happier with the Bold than you were with the Tilt, is it time for a Bold for your father also?

[Mobile Mike]

Originally Posted by efparri

You are incorrect. As stated above, the table is describing the warranty periods of a new versus a refurbished phone. It is not describing what phone you will get in a warranty exchange. Look at it this way. If nothing went wrong with your original phone, after sixth month you will stiil have a used phone. Why should you expect the carrier to replace your used phone with a new phone?

This is the table title:
The below table provides our Warranty Service Eligibility Requirements:

I've been fortunate enough not to have had to deal with AT&T regarding a situation like this. So my comments were based on what previous posters mentioned. I don't claim to have absolute knowledge of AT&T's warranty terms and conditions. I only offered my opinion.

I'm not quite sure what the point of your post is, but it's irrelevant at this point as Erik has dealt with the situation already.

[Gamer03]

Originally Posted by Charlyee

Gamer, thanks for the update. All that "vague& amorphous" language was quite confusing..

Well since you are much happier with the Bold than you were with the Tilt, is it time for a Bold for your father also?

Yes it was confusing. Well I showed it to him. He likes the fact that it is easier to dial and easier to see in the sunlight. He is still debating on what he wants to do once he places the order for the refurb. I will let you and everyone else know what he decides on once we get a chance to call back the Warranty Exchange (probably not until Thursday afternoon since he will be gone all day tomorrow and we take my sister back to the airport Thursday morning).

[Gamer03]

Originally Posted by Mobile Mike

I've been fortunate enough not to have had to deal with AT&T regarding a situation like this. So my comments were based on what previous posters mentioned. I don't claim to have absolute knowledge of AT&T's warranty terms and conditions. I only offered my opinion.

I'm not quite sure what the point of your post is, but it's irrelevant at this point as Erik has dealt with the situation already.

We have been fortunate too Mike. This is the first time we needed a phone to be replaced since we started using wireless in 1999.

[Mobile Mike]

Originally Posted by Gamer03

We have been fortunate too Mike. This is the first time we needed a phone to be replaced since we started using wireless in 1999.

I've had to do it three times with Verizon. Twice with the Motorola T720 (as it died unexpectedly of mechanical causes), eventually the second T720 bit the dust too (ear piece died), which was then replaced by a new T730, as the T720 was not longer available.

The second time was with the Motorola Q, as the phone would not charge. The two T720's and the Q were refurbs. Other than that all the other 30+ phones I've bought through the years have worked just fine.

[efparri]

Originally Posted by Mobile Mike

I've been fortunate enough not to have had to deal with AT&T regarding a situation like this. So my comments were based on what previous posters mentioned. I don't claim to have absolute knowledge of AT&T's warranty terms and conditions. I only offered my opinion.

I'm not quite sure what the point of your post is, but it's irrelevant at this point as Erik has dealt with the situation already.

Our comments in these forums last way past the immediate concerns of the original poster. It would be remiss of me to not correct misleading information if I become aware of it and can offer correct information.

[Gamer03]

Well my dad was finally able to call AT&T again after having a slow day in our office (which is nice since he have been busy since the first of the year). He explained the problem to the women on the phone. She asked him what color the sticker was (it is white since we don't drop our phones in the water). Next, she put him on hold since she had to talk to her supervisor. She came back and said that due to "physical damage" the warranty is void. He explained to her that we do not drop phones, have never even needed a warranty exchange with any carrier (we have been wireless since 1999), and take good care of our phones (it was a $300 phone after the rebate).

She read him their "physical damage" clause according to their policies. First of all we never drop phones. Second of all, there is no water damage, and third, the local manager said it would be under warranty (which she told us "well he shouldn't have told you that since he was wrong"). My dad asked if they can send the C key to us and let us glue it ourselves. She said they can't and said to either use the phone as is (which is completely ridiculous), or said that we can call HTC and talk with them. He asked to be connected to her supervisor or the supervisor's supervisor, and she said "sir I have just told you want my supervisor told me to tell you". We will be calling HTC this afternoon and seeing what they have to say. Towards the end of the conversation before the call ended, she started getting upset and annoyed with us (at this point we were very upset and way past annoyed), and told us that is the best that AT&T can do. My dad told her that this is another problem that we have had with AT&T and that if HTC and AT&T cannot fix our problem (she at least gave us the number for HTC Support), then we will consider our options and are highly thinking of going back to Verizon (apparently they do not want or care about $200+ per month accounts). That plus the fact that we are starting to drop calls with AT&T both in our neighborhood and around town (so it is not just one tower that is acting up). I will post another update hopefully this afternoon. Hopefully HTC will help us. If not, then we will seriously consider our options. It is amazing to see how AT&T likes to treat their customers. It really tells you a lot about the company.

[Alienware_51]

Originally Posted by Gamer03

Well my dad was finally able to call AT&T again after having a slow day in our office (which is nice since he have been busy since the first of the year). He explained the problem to the women on the phone. She asked him what color the sticker was (it is white since we don't drop our phones in the water). Next, she put him on hold since she had to talk to her supervisor. She came back and said that due to "physical damage" the warranty is void. He explained to her that we do not drop phones, have never even needed a warranty exchange with any carrier (we have been wireless since 1999), and take good care of our phones (it was a $300 phone after the rebate).

She read him their "physical damage" clause according to their policies. First of all we never drop phones. Second of all, there is no water damage, and third, the local manager said it would be under warranty (which she told us "well he shouldn't have told you that since he was wrong"). My dad asked if they can send the C key to us and let us glue it ourselves. She said they can't and said to either use the phone as is (which is completely ridiculous), or said that we can call HTC and talk with them. He asked to be connected to her supervisor or the supervisor's supervisor, and she said "sir I have just told you want my supervisor told me to tell you". We will be calling HTC this afternoon and seeing what they have to say. Towards the end of the conversation before the call ended, she started getting upset and annoyed with us (at this point we were very upset and way past annoyed), and told us that is the best that AT&T can do. My dad told her that this is another problem that we have had with AT&T and that if HTC and AT&T cannot fix our problem (she at least gave us the number for HTC Support), then we will consider our options and are highly thinking of going back to Verizon (apparently they do not want or care about $200+ per month accounts). That plus the fact that we are starting to drop calls with AT&T both in our neighborhood and around town (so it is not just one tower that is acting up). I will post another update hopefully this afternoon. Hopefully HTC will help us. If not, then we will seriously consider our options. It is amazing to see how AT&T likes to treat their customers. It really tells you a lot about the company.

Wow, I'm really sorry at&t is treating you like that, it is completely ridiculous. They basically went against their own word about replacing your dad's phone. Any luck with HTC?

[Gamer03]

Originally Posted by Alienware_51

Wow, I'm really sorry at&t is treating you like that, it is completely ridiculous. They basically went against their own word about replacing your dad's phone. Any luck with HTC?

Thanks. AT&T has definitely left a very sour taste in our mouth after dealing with all of this. I have never seen a company give us a runaround as much as AT&T has been doing so. When my dad called HTC yesterday, he was told to send in his phone to them, they will assess the phone, tell him what it costs to fix it (it shouldn't be anything imo), and then ship it back to him. HTC even told us that it is your carrier's responsibility to address the problem first. We never had this much trouble when we were with Verizon. The most trouble that we had was when I wanted to switch my phone over the phone from my Motorola Q at the time to a Motorola E815. The problem is that this is our main business phone and we need to have it at all times. So worse comes to worse, he would pop his sim into my old phone and use it for the time being. We will be calling AT&T one more time this week and see if we can get somebody different. When our contract is over, I don't know if we will be keeping AT&T after the problems that we have had with them.

[hme83]

Hopefully you'll ultimately have better luck in working directly with HTC for the repair to be considered a warranty claim.

I've not had any first hand experience with at&t's warranty process, but I do know that long before at&t was classifying the cracked/broken keys on the SE W580i as a warranty item, SE was replacing the keyboards under a warranty claim for customers who contacted them directly. At&t doesn't care what brand of phone you choose next - but HTC does have reason to.

And imo, this is part of the problem with our warped system of carrier equipment subsidies in the US. It muddies the waters for the consumer re: who is "accountable" for equipment quality issues and when firmware doesn't perform properly; plus it gives the carriers and manufacturers an opportunity to point the finger at the other party. In the end, of course it is HTC's problem - however, with our system HTC isn't selling to the consumer as much as they are "selling" to the carrier(s).

[joen]

Hi Gamer03, you mentioned that you had insurance. Is that on the tilt phone? I had heard that ATT did not sell insurance on the tilt. If they do I want to find ou the price as my experience with PDA phones is not good. I had the 8525 before the tilt and had many problems with the screen even though I never dropped it or damaged it myself. Good luck!!

[Gamer03]

Originally Posted by hme83

Hopefully you'll ultimately have better luck in working directly with HTC for the repair to be considered a warranty claim.

I've not had any first hand experience with at&t's warranty process, but I do know that long before at&t was classifying the cracked/broken keys on the SE W580i as a warranty item, SE was replacing the keyboards under a warranty claim for customers who contacted them directly. At&t doesn't care what brand of phone you choose next - but HTC does have reason to.

And imo, this is part of the problem with our warped system of carrier equipment subsidies in the US. It muddies the waters for the consumer re: who is "accountable" for equipment quality issues and when firmware doesn't perform properly; plus it gives the carriers and manufacturers an opportunity to point the finger at the other party. In the end, of course it is HTC's problem - however, with our system HTC isn't selling to the consumer as much as they are "selling" to the carrier(s).

I agree with you about the equipment subsidies hme83. I was reading a thread on another forum the other day and people were complaining about it too.

[Gamer03]

Originally Posted by joen

Hi Gamer03, you mentioned that you had insurance. Is that on the tilt phone? I had heard that ATT did not sell insurance on the tilt. If they do I want to find ou the price as my experience with PDA phones is not good. I had the 8525 before the tilt and had many problems with the screen even though I never dropped it or damaged it myself. Good luck!!

Hi joen. We had insurance on the Tilt but cancelled almost a month ago (back when this problem started) due to the fact that we no longer required it. Luckily for us the screen is not the problem. I have read numerous posts on other forums with people saying that they had bad luck with their screens too.

[hme83]

Originally Posted by joen

Hi Gamer03, you mentioned that you had insurance. Is that on the tilt phone? I had heard that ATT did not sell insurance on the tilt. If they do I want to find ou the price as my experience with PDA phones is not good. I had the 8525 before the tilt and had many problems with the screen even though I never dropped it or damaged it myself. Good luck!!

Insurance is now available on any phone sold by at&t with the exception of the iPhone and for GoPhone accounts. I believe this change occurred during the latter part of 2008. The monthly fee is $4.99, however specified phones (including PDA/smartphones) carry a deductible of $125. You have to add the insurance within 30 days of purchase.

Here is the specific documentation re: the insurance available through at&t:

Wireless Phone Insurance

[Gamer03]

UPDATE:

My dad called HTC on Tuesday and they gave him a RMA#. At the time, they needed a credit card since a $28 triage fee is charged in order to assess the phone and the problem(s) upon arrival. Once the assessment is complete, they will decide if the key falling off falls under normal wear and tear. If it doesn't, then they will charge "up to $145" to replace the entire keyboard and any other housing that is necessary (see next paragraph).

After talking with HTC and having them charge us the fee, they sent us an email with the necessary steps (since we have to ship it ourselves and follow the certain steps). On Wednesday we called AT&T once again about the problem. The rep that my dad spoke with at AT&T called HTC and they did a 3-way conversation. They told us the "up to $145" charge at this time. Today, we mailed his phone off to the repair center in Indiana. AT&T will not budge and will not do absolutely anything for us, which is completely ridiculous. The entire process will take up to two weeks once they receive his phone. This entire experience has left an extremely bitter taste in our mouth and we may consider going back to Verizon later this year once the merger is completed in our area.