Leaving Cingular

[SteveW]

After 6 1/2 years with ATTWS -> Cingular, I am switching to T-Mobile. My main complaint is that I cannot get usable service in my house, or for roughly 2 blocks in any direction. I am in the middle of a major city where the Cingular street-level map shows the highest level of service. The map is wrong. For some reason there is a local dip in signal strength that the survey missed.

I could have switched easily last summer, as I was out of contract. But I was looking forward to some new phones, I was swayed by the hype about "network integration", I wanted 3G, and I thought that having a real Cingular device, rather than an ATTWS device, would make a difference. So I signed a 2 year contract, got a phone I am reasonably happy with and continued to have problems. I could have returned the phone and cancelled the contract within the 30-day trial period, but I didn't.

One reason I didn't cancel is that I travel a lot and at that point used my phone for work. Cingular coverage is perhaps second only to Verizon, and I needed the peace of mind that entails. Recently, along with a new job, I got a Verizon BlackBerry that I have posted a bit about. Since I no longer depend on my personal phone for work, and will always have the BB, I can drop down to a cheaper T-Mobile plan and risk being out of the T-Mo coverage area occasionally.

So the argument for the last few weeks has been over the ETF. It's $175 and I wanted Cingular to waive it for the simple reason that they can't provide service in the middle of a major metro area. I have gone through lots of hoops to prove this to them and each call lasted a minimum of 45 minutes, during which I generally talked to 3 or 4 people, explaining my story each time. I won't bore you with all the gory details, but for many days in a row I would initiate these calls while driving home from work. I timed it so I started talking to the rep just before I reached home, while the signal was still good. 3/4 of the time the connection would then become so bad they could barely hear me, and I'd have them call my home phone. When the rep called the home phone I would say, "That's what I need to you document in my record - that you couldn't hear me when I got close to my house." And then we would go on from there and have a chat with the Cancellation department. I did this probably 6 or 8 times.

Of course Cingular didn't want to waive the ETF and reps repeatedly asked me why I signed a new contract if I was having problems. "Because I wanted to give Cingular another chance", didn't seem like a good answer to them.

Today we agreed to a compromise. I will pay $75 of the ETF and Cingular will eat the $100. My wife thinks I'm much too stubborn and should have just paid the ETF. I spent 3-4 hours to save $100. But it's not the money, it's the principle!! I'm probably much too stubborn.


SW

[walkguru]

Wirelessly posted (Walkguru's: LG-CU500 Obigo/WAP2.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 UP.Link/6.3.0.0.0)

Originally Posted by SteveW

After 6 1/2 years with ATTWS -> Cingular, I am switching to T-Mobile. My main complaint is that I cannot get usable service in my house, or for roughly 2 blocks in any direction. I am in the middle of a major city where the Cingular street-level map shows the highest level of service. The map is wrong.

I could have switched easily last summer, as I was out of contract. But I was looking forward to some new phones, I was swayed by the hype about "network integration", I wanted 3G, and I thought that having a real Cingular device, rather than an ATTWS device, would make a difference. So I signed a 2 year contract, got a phone I am reasonably happy with and continued to have problems. I could have returned the phone and cancelled the contract within the 30-day trial period, but I didn't.

One reason I didn't cancel is that I travel a lot and at that point used my phone for work. Cingular coverage is perhaps second only to Verizon, and I needed the peace of mind that entails. Recently, along with a new job, I got a Verizon BlackBerry that I have posted a bit about. Since I no longer depend on my personal phone for work, and will always have the BB, I can drop down to a cheaper T-Mobile plan and risk being out of the T-Mo coverage area occasionally.

So the argument for the last few weeks has been over the ETF. It's $175 and I wanted Cingular to waive it for the simple reason that they can't provide service in the middle of a major metro area. I have gone through lots of hoops to prove this to them and each call lasted a minimum of 45 minutes, during which I generally talked to 3 or 4 people, explaining my story each time. I won't bore you with all the gory details, but for many days in a row I would initiate these calls while driving home from work. I timed it so I started talking to the rep just before I reached home, while the signal was still good. 3/4 of the time the connection would then become so bad they could barely hear me, and I'd have them call my home phone. When the rep called the home phone I would say, "That's what I need to you document in my record - that you couldn't hear me when I got close to my house." And then we would go on from there and have a chat with the Cancellation department. I did this probably 6 or 8 times.

Of course Cingular didn't want to waive the ETF and reps repeatedly asked me why I signed a new contract if I was having problems. "Because I wanted to give Cingular another chance", didn't seem like a good answer to them.

Today we agreed to a compromise. I will pay $75 of the ETF and Cingular will eat the $100. My wife thinks I'm much too stubborn and should have just paid the ETF. I spent 3-4 hours to save $100. But its not the money, it's the principle!! I'm probably much too stubborn.


SW

Im sorry to hear this. Good luck with your quest.

[Fire14]

Wow, at least you got them to compromise on this and I agree, it's the principal of the deal you were hoping things would improve but they didn't & now with the opportunity to use a different carrier/device for work, why be frustrated any longer.

Hope T-Mobile works good for you.

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by walkguru

Im sorry to hear this. Good luck with your quest.

Originally Posted by Fire14

Wow, at least you got them to compromise on this and I agree, it's the principal of the deal you were hoping things would improve but they didn't & now with the opportunity to use a different carrier/device for work, why be frustrated any longer.

Hope T-Mobile works good for you.

Thanks. I know it will work. My wife has had T-Mobile for a while and hasn't had a problem here. With a T-Mobile SIM in my unlocked LG CU500, I can put it into network monitor mode and I consistently see a 5-10 db improvement in signal strength over Cingular. When you are around -95 db, that can easily be the difference between being able to make a call and not.


SW

[bradhs]

Another option would have been to install a SpotWave Z1900. http://www.spotwave.com/residential/products/z1900.asp

It would have eliminated the issue in your house, if it was only your house that was having the issue. We have special tinted windows that drops our cell signal down -10 to -15 db's. I'm installing one of these to bring it back up inside the house.

T-Mo is another good carrier and as time goes by cellular service will just get better. I imagine telling my kids that we used to "drop calls" and have to deal with not being able to clearly each other on a cellular phone. lol

Bradley

[Quint101]

Wirelessly posted (Q's Mobile Device: Opera/8.01 (J2ME/MIDP; Opera Mini/3.0.6306/1558; en; U; ssr))

At least you have working service and aren't bound to Cingy. Hope Tmobile works out for you.

[hf1khal]

Originally Posted by SteveW

Thanks. I know it will work. My wife has had T-Mobile for a while and hasn't had a problem here. With a T-Mobile SIM in my unlocked LG CU500, I can put it into network monitor mode and I consistently see a 5-10 db improvement in signal strength over Cingular. When you are around -95 db, that can easily be the difference between being able to make a call and not.


SW

You have to do what is best for you. In this case T mobile is your ansewr and hopefully it will be better for you every where you need it.

Originally Posted by bradhs

Another option would have been to install a SpotWave Z1900. http://www.spotwave.com/residential/products/z1900.asp

It would have eliminated the issue in your house, if it was only your house that was having the issue. We have special tinted windows that drops our cell signal down -10 to -15 db's. I'm installing one of these to bring it back up inside the house.

T-Mo is another good carrier and as time goes by cellular service will just get better. I imagine telling my kids that we used to "drop calls" and have to deal with not being able to clearly each other on a cellular phone. lol

Bradley

That would be a nice thing but I think it helps T mobile users more than Cingular as it is 1 1900 band only. I have seem repeaters that go for about $400 to $600 that can do both the 850 and the 1900.

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by bradhs

Another option would have been to install a SpotWave Z1900. http://www.spotwave.com/residential/products/z1900.asp

It would have eliminated the issue in your house, if it was only your house that was having the issue.

Originally Posted by hf1khal

That would be a nice thing but I think it helps T mobile users more than Cingular as it is 1 1900 band only. I have seem repeaters that go for about $400 to $600 that can do both the 850 and the 1900.

Thanks for the info, but it's not the house itself. It's also a small region around the house. I don't know that I'm exactly in the center of this, but I'm pretty close. It is extremely annoying to be on a call while approaching my house, and then as I get within a few blocks, the other person starts saying "What? You're breaking up!!".

Originally Posted by bradhs

I imagine telling my kids that we used to "drop calls" and have to deal with not being able to clearly each other on a cellular phone. lol

Right. I bet we'll be saying that someday. "So Dad, you mean when you were growing up everybody didn't have GoogleEarth-GPS-personal-shopper-locator on their phone? So people could get lost while driving? And you didn't know where the nearest Starbucks or ATM was? And parents couldn't see where their kids are on a map at any time? That's weird!"


SW

[Charlyee]

Originally Posted by SteveW

After 6 1/2 years with ATTWS -> Cingular, I am switching to T-Mobile. My main complaint is that I cannot get usable service in my house, or for roughly 2 blocks in any direction. I am in the middle of a major city where the Cingular street-level map shows the highest level of service. The map is wrong. For some reason there is a local dip in signal strength that the survey missed

I'm probably much too stubborn.


SW

Yes you probably are too stubborn..., but I do agree with you it is the principle of the thing. I have to congratulate you, you have been able to do with Cingular what I have been unable to do with Verizon in the last 1.5 years. As I mentioned to you I have the exact situation with Verizon as you do with Cingular. All my calls to them have resulted in bonus minutes, which ofcourse is totallly worthless when calls get dropped from home all the time or don't connect. This last go around I got 250 text messages/month free for 6 months... I have given up and am waiting for my contract with Verizon to run out in June.

Good luck with T-Mobile

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by Charlyee

Yes you probably are too stubborn..., but I do agree with you it is the principle of the thing. I have to congratulate you, you have been able to do with Cingular what I have been unable to do with Verizon in the last 1.5 years. As I mentioned to you I have the exact situation with Verizon as you do with Cingular. All my calls to them have resulted in bonus minutes, which ofcourse is totallly worthless when calls get dropped from home all the time or don't connect. This last go around I got 250 text messages/month free for 6 months... I have given up and am waiting for my contract with Verizon to run out in June.

Good luck with T-Mobile

Thanks. So I guess your situation is like this:
You -"Waiter, I hate the pizza here, I really can't eat this stuff."
Waiter - "I'm sorry you feel that way, would you like a coupon for a free pizza?"

Today I verified that the Cancellation dept supervisor's note on my account is there and understandable by the first-level CSR. I always double-check with Cingular CS. They don't always make the notation in the account that they promise they will. If you have to go through several layers of CS, it always takes a half hour or more. Also, the credit they are giving me is only promised for the future, so I wanted to be sure it's really there.

It's in the future because, in order to keep my number, I have to go to T-Mobile while my Cingular account is still open and request the number port. Then they request the number from Cingular. If I just close my Cingular account, the number would go back to Cingular. So the full $175 ETF will be applied to my bill and then I have to call and get them to take $100 off according to the notation in my account. Sound tedious enough?


SW

[hf1khal]

Originally Posted by SteveW

Thanks. So I guess your situation is like this:
You -"Waiter, I hate the pizza here, I really can't eat this stuff."
Waiter - "I'm sorry you feel that way, would you like a coupon for a free pizza?"

Today I verified that the Cancellation dept supervisor's note on my account is there and understandable by the first-level CSR. I always double-check with Cingular CS. They don't always make the notation in the account that they promise they will. If you have to go through several layers of CS, it always takes a half hour or more. Also, the credit they are giving me is only promised for the future, so I wanted to be sure it's really there.

It's in the future because, in order to keep my number, I have to go to T-Mobile while my Cingular account is still open and request the number port. Then they request the number from Cingular. If I just close my Cingular account, the number would go back to Cingular. So the full $175 ETF will be applied to my bill and then I have to call and get them to take $100 off according to the notation in my account. Sound tedious enough?


SW

Do not forget to add the last moth bill you might still owe. I am not sure if you are from an original Blue account or an actual orange account. As you know Blue acccounts that migrated get billed diferntly than orange ones. Blue does not pay teh month in advance while Orange does. When I migrated the Blue billing rules carried over.

[Andy]

Congratulations on getting at least something from Cingular.
Cingular and Verizon are very stubburn these days, I am always suprised to see something like this from either of the two carriers.
Cingular also lists my neighborhood as "BEST" service, they actually list most of Salt Lake City as "BEST" even though there are tons of places, like my neighborhood, that are a joke, coverage wise.

If I were to switch carriers, and yes, I have been contemplating it along with my family, I would go to T-Mobile as well.

[T Sizzles]

I've heard that T-Mobile is worse than Cingular mainly because T-Mobile depends on other GSM carriers newtorks for areas using the 1900MHz band. But then again, some areas could be better.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by T Sizzles

I've heard that T-Mobile is worse than Cingular mainly because T-Mobile depends on other GSM carriers newtorks for areas using the 1900MHz band. But then again, some areas could be better.

That completely depends on what area we are talking about. Yes, T-Mobile's native coverage is 1900 only, but that does not automatically mean that they are worse than other carriers. In my area, T-Mobile is 1900, but has, within the last few years, activated dozens and dozens of new cellsites and, honestly, I could not tell the difference between their network and a cellular network. Generally, T-Mobile does concentrate on urban areas as well as highways, but those areas are generally very well built out.

[SmArTeStChIlD421]

Originally Posted by SteveW

After 6 1/2 years with ATTWS -> Cingular, I am switching to T-Mobile. My main complaint is that I cannot get usable service in my house, or for roughly 2 blocks in any direction. I am in the middle of a major city where the Cingular street-level map shows the highest level of service. The map is wrong. For some reason there is a local dip in signal strength that the survey missed.

I could have switched easily last summer, as I was out of contract. But I was looking forward to some new phones, I was swayed by the hype about "network integration", I wanted 3G, and I thought that having a real Cingular device, rather than an ATTWS device, would make a difference. So I signed a 2 year contract, got a phone I am reasonably happy with and continued to have problems. I could have returned the phone and cancelled the contract within the 30-day trial period, but I didn't.

One reason I didn't cancel is that I travel a lot and at that point used my phone for work. Cingular coverage is perhaps second only to Verizon, and I needed the peace of mind that entails. Recently, along with a new job, I got a Verizon BlackBerry that I have posted a bit about. Since I no longer depend on my personal phone for work, and will always have the BB, I can drop down to a cheaper T-Mobile plan and risk being out of the T-Mo coverage area occasionally.

So the argument for the last few weeks has been over the ETF. It's $175 and I wanted Cingular to waive it for the simple reason that they can't provide service in the middle of a major metro area. I have gone through lots of hoops to prove this to them and each call lasted a minimum of 45 minutes, during which I generally talked to 3 or 4 people, explaining my story each time. I won't bore you with all the gory details, but for many days in a row I would initiate these calls while driving home from work. I timed it so I started talking to the rep just before I reached home, while the signal was still good. 3/4 of the time the connection would then become so bad they could barely hear me, and I'd have them call my home phone. When the rep called the home phone I would say, "That's what I need to you document in my record - that you couldn't hear me when I got close to my house." And then we would go on from there and have a chat with the Cancellation department. I did this probably 6 or 8 times.

Of course Cingular didn't want to waive the ETF and reps repeatedly asked me why I signed a new contract if I was having problems. "Because I wanted to give Cingular another chance", didn't seem like a good answer to them.

Today we agreed to a compromise. I will pay $75 of the ETF and Cingular will eat the $100. My wife thinks I'm much too stubborn and should have just paid the ETF. I spent 3-4 hours to save $100. But it's not the money, it's the principle!! I'm probably much too stubborn.


SW

i have to say that im just as stubborn as you.........i was on a T-Mobile family plan.......i had a Moto V188 and my mom had a Nokia 6010..........i decided to upgrade us and the phones arrived.......a week later we decided that we wanted to switch to other carriers cuz here in PA its really mountainous and the coverage was iffy and my moms new Samsungs RF sucked and she got 2/6 bars when i got 3/4..........so we mailed back in my moms Samsung x495 and my Nokie 6103.........when shipping it back in UPS damaged the external display of my Nokia..........T-Mobile took my moms Sansung but not the Nokia and mailed it back to me and the charge continued to show up on our bill............my moms contract ended and mine kept going........when i received the phone back.....i couldnt see the damage yet cuz the screen was bleeding but the screen was dark and it wasnt until it was under a light that i could see the damage..........by this time i had thrown away that packaging..........and UPS wouldnt accpet my claim unless they could see packaging.........but T-Mobile should have filed the damage claim cuz they were the receipients.........but they didnt and that was the subject of approximately 15 calls (literally).........and finally i filed with the Better Business Bureau.........within 48 hours of filing.........T-Mobile called me to tell me that they had received the claim from BBB and even though they felt the charges were valid they would waive the charges for my moms phone......my phone........all sales tax on the phones........all shipping charges for shipping the phones out the first time.....and all i had to do was pay the prorated remainder from the last month of service...........

my mom told me to just pay T-Mobile for the phone but i wouldnt cuz i didnt want to waste that 200 some dollars.............talk about stubborn

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by hf1khal

Do not forget to add the last moth bill you might still owe. I am not sure if you are from an original Blue account or an actual orange account. As you know Blue acccounts that migrated get billed diferntly than orange ones. Blue does not pay teh month in advance while Orange does. When I migrated the Blue billing rules carried over.

I was originally Blue, so we'll see what happens. Of course, I am responsible for Cingular charges up until the day the number is ported (should be today or tomorrow). You can be sure I'll read my bill carefully.

SW

[SteveW]

Originally Posted by Andy

Cingular also lists my neighborhood as "BEST" service, they actually list most of Salt Lake City as "BEST" even though there are tons of places, like my neighborhood, that are a joke, coverage wise.

This is consistent with my experience, but really not what I would have expected. If they have street level, high resolution maps, you would think they have data at that level of detail to support the map. Maybe they really don't.


SW