Flagged account due to "excessive"off network usage

[racindave99]

[b]On or about4/26/06 my account was flagged by Cingular. I was not notified or warned about this. I am a truck driver and was entering Bennington Vt.about 3:30 am and had no service. I usually have several bars (as I run this route all the time)and this night I had none and the name Cingular name was not on my phone. I thought maybe the tower was down. Then I was on my way into Brattelboro VT. and noticed again that I had no service where I usually do. Later in the day I was in Cobelskill NY and again no service but a guy standing next to me with a Nextel had 4 bars. Later that night at home where I usually can squeeze out 3 bars I had none. My wife who has Cingular had her 3 bars.I still had service in certain areas but not in the ones I mentioned. I thought this was odd and called Cingular. I was referred to the off network dept. They told me my account was flagged due to excessive off network usage. My choices were early termination with no penalty or stay with what I have and deal with it.Some choices!!![/B] I was told that the name Dobson came up on the list of phone calls I made. Dobson of course( I found out after the call)owns Cellular one. I read that Cellularone(Dobson) and Cingular had an agreement when it comes to off network calls. I was also told by the CS person that they had to pay Dobson alot of money each time I made my calls and that's why I was flagged. I never went passed and probably never even used half of the 5,000 N&W minutes. I have free roaming on my contract. Can anyone offer advice? Does anyone have previous experience inthis matter?
Everone that I have told this story to has given me the oddest looks( like puzzled dogs) and no one had ever heard of such a problem. I work at a place where there are 167 truck drivers. There are several Cingular drivers and no one else has this problem. There is one guy in particular who talks as much or more than I do and he has never had a problem concerning this matter.
I have paid all my bills early or on time and I was told told that has nothng to do with the problem. It is a matter of where the call was made from and how often.
Thanks for reading this. Please help me.
respond here or also emailme at racindave99@yahoo.com

[ZaphodB]

Let's keep all the responses here rather than in e-mail... that way people with this problem in future can do research.

Your Cingular contract undoubtedly has a clause about excessive use... go read the fine print and see. If it doesn't (and be liberal about how you interpret it, because you know they will be) then they haven't a leg to stand on. If it does, find out who owns the towers you're using most often and go with them.

[viewfly]

This came up in another posting (http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/wi...ghlight=dobson (Cingular hangs up on some Michigan Customers)) and again between Dobson and Cingular.

Cingular has a clause (and some others too, but I've read not verizon), that if more than 50% of your calls, over 3 consecutive months, is roaming off the Cingular native network, they have the right to cancel your service. This is regardless if you have free national wide roaming.

Unfortunately they don't display on your phone when that happens; fortunately they are not going to charge you the Early Termination Fee however.

I don't have any personal experience with this. I don't know if they are counting only Anytime minutes or include N&W too.

The thing to do is recognize these areas where Dobson is and limit your calls, and obey the 3 month rule. It may also help to increase your minute plan...if you have a cheap minute plan and rely on N&W while roaming, that may be the problem. It could be harder to reach your 50% limit if you had a more minute plan.

It is interesting to me that it is a problem with Dobson once again and the only other case I know of is with Dobson.

Some people can mod their phones to display the roaming partner service.

[racindave99]

This is how it reads exactly.
Cingular reserves the right to terminate your service if less than 50% of your usage over three consecutive billing cycles in on Cingular-owned systems. Customer must (1) use a Cingular GSM dual band handset programmed with Cingular Wireless' preferred roaming database;(2)have a mailing address and live in the immediate geographic area in which subscription is made.
This is found in my contract book on the "Rate Plan Terms" page under Terms Applicable to Cingular Nation GSM Plans: and in the Nights and Weekends Paragrapgh

[ZaphodB]

Well, it's 50% of the calls made, not 50% of the minute pool available.

If you're in Dobson territory a lot, it may make sense to jump ship and buy a Dobson (US Cellular) phone. Verizon doesn't have the 50% rule, but that's because the newer America's Choice plans simply won't roam on carriers that Verizon deem too expensive... it will behave like a GSM phone, where it won't roam on someone not on the PRL except if you dial one of the emergency numbers (911, 112, 999).

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by ZaphodB

Well, it's 50% of the calls made, not 50% of the minute pool available.

A very good point, which negates my 'more minute' idea.

I suppose if you jump to a higher $$ plan, they may be more forgiving, since they generate more revenue from you. They always reserve the right, it's not an on/off switch. It probably best for the OP to bargain with Cingular on the best solution.

[racindave99]

Actually it is not 50% of the "calls made". It says 50% of my "usage". I guess I can make fewer calls that last longer. Or is it all under interpretation. Is usage the amount of calls made or the minutes used in a cycle. In this case a three month cycle. I think usage is minutes used. At the end of the day I don't think they care how many calls I made. I think they care how long I was on the phone for. Thank you viewfly for your suggestion for that other thread.
I may be in Dobson territory alot but I am all over the Northeast all the time. I may be in VT a few days in a row, or Mass.,CT.,PA.,NJ or in NY. It is not predictable.
If Cingular had given me the opportunity to view my usage % I would have been able to control my off network usage, Just like I control my anytime minutes and keep it way under 450 shared and save the rollover minutes. There is and never was any notification of what network I am in and no mention of any sort that I was headed in the wrong direction.When I signed on and bought my V551 GSM I told the CS that I am a truck driver and the areas that I drive in. All I got was a smile, a "no problem", and refer to the coverage map and you will be fine. According to the coverage map I should be fine. Well now I guess I gotta make a decision where to go. Alot of guys tell me at my job that Verizon is the deal. But what if I talk more than they do.
What if my "usage" is greater than theirs? Do you think if I ask, Verizon will be honest with me? Do most companies give a decent trial period.Can I get Verizon or Cellularone...aka Dobson 2 weeks or 30 days for a free trial?
Thanks for your help so far folks. keep it coming and I hope to resolve this soon.
Sorry for the epic posts...

[racindave99]

Is there a definitive tower site location website?

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by racindave99

Is there a definitive tower site location website?

With Cingular, an on line version is coming sometime soon. In the meantime, go to a Cingular store and they have a deatiled computer map that can show you where you would be roaming off network. Just explain the situation to them and sit down and go over your routes with them. Should help.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by ZaphodB

Well, it's 50% of the calls made, not 50% of the minute pool available.

If you're in Dobson territory a lot, it may make sense to jump ship and buy a Dobson (US Cellular) phone. Verizon doesn't have the 50% rule, but that's because the newer America's Choice plans simply won't roam on carriers that Verizon deem too expensive... it will behave like a GSM phone, where it won't roam on someone not on the PRL except if you dial one of the emergency numbers (911, 112, 999).

Zaphod, I'm not sure I'm following you. Your statement about Verizon not having a 50% rule is correct, one can roam as much as you like, but I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning. You are saying that Verizon doesn't have a 50% rule because they only allow you to roam on carriers they want you to roam on, meaning carriers they deem are necessarily to give customers good coverage and carriers with whom roaming rates are cheap. That is correct, but how does Cingular do it? Cingular does not allow you to roam on any carrier, just the ones they deem necessary and the ones they have preferable roaming agreements with. What's the difference??? Verizon lets you know when you are off network, Cingular always displays CINGULAR so even having that 50% rule is ridiculous. Customers have no way to know they are roaming, and are never given a map with Cingular native coverage when signing up for service.
I used to have a Cingular phone until last week and it was forced to T-Mobile most of the time so my calls wouldn't garble. Well about a month or two ago I could not register on T-Mobile anymore where I could before...they did the same to me.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by racindave99

Actually it is not 50% of the "calls made". It says 50% of my "usage". I guess I can make fewer calls that last longer. Or is it all under interpretation. Is usage the amount of calls made or the minutes used in a cycle. In this case a three month cycle. I think usage is minutes used. At the end of the day I don't think they care how many calls I made. I think they care how long I was on the phone for. Thank you viewfly for your suggestion for that other thread.
I may be in Dobson territory alot but I am all over the Northeast all the time. I may be in VT a few days in a row, or Mass.,CT.,PA.,NJ or in NY. It is not predictable.
If Cingular had given me the opportunity to view my usage % I would have been able to control my off network usage, Just like I control my anytime minutes and keep it way under 450 shared and save the rollover minutes. There is and never was any notification of what network I am in and no mention of any sort that I was headed in the wrong direction.When I signed on and bought my V551 GSM I told the CS that I am a truck driver and the areas that I drive in. All I got was a smile, a "no problem", and refer to the coverage map and you will be fine. According to the coverage map I should be fine. Well now I guess I gotta make a decision where to go. Alot of guys tell me at my job that Verizon is the deal. But what if I talk more than they do.
What if my "usage" is greater than theirs? Do you think if I ask, Verizon will be honest with me? Do most companies give a decent trial period.Can I get Verizon or Cellularone...aka Dobson 2 weeks or 30 days for a free trial?
Thanks for your help so far folks. keep it coming and I hope to resolve this soon.
Sorry for the epic posts...

If you are currently roaming too much with Cingular and they've cut off Dobson roaming for you, there's no reason for you to stay with them, especially if you can leave without paying an ETF. Where are you based out of/where is your billing address at? If it's in an ALLTEL area I'd consider them(not sure if they have a roaming rule), but their pricing is very good and their national plans have a big coverage area. U.S. Cellular may be a good choice, not sure if they have a roaming rule or not. Verizon may be a good choice as well as I know they do not have a roaming rule. Sprint may also be a good choice, just know that Mobile to Mobile minutes and Vision will not work while off network.
Hope this helps.

P.S. And yes, every carrier will give you a trial. If you are unsure if the reps are honest with you, come back and post all your questions. We WILL help you!

[ZaphodB]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

Zaphod, I'm not sure I'm following you. Your statement about Verizon not having a 50% rule is correct, one can roam as much as you like, but I'm not sure I'm following your reasoning. You are saying that Verizon doesn't have a 50% rule because they only allow you to roam on carriers they want you to roam on, meaning carriers they deem are necessarily to give customers good coverage and carriers with whom roaming rates are cheap. That is correct, but how does Cingular do it? Cingular does not allow you to roam on any carrier, just the ones they deem necessary and the ones they have preferable roaming agreements with. What's the difference??? Verizon lets you know when you are off network, Cingular always displays CINGULAR so even having that 50% rule is ridiculous. Customers have no way to know they are roaming, and are never given a map with Cingular native coverage when signing up for service.
I used to have a Cingular phone until last week and it was forced to T-Mobile most of the time so my calls wouldn't garble. Well about a month or two ago I could not register on T-Mobile anymore where I could before...they did the same to me.

The reasoning is this: with Cingular, they allow you to roam wherever (as long as any agreement is in place), and institute the 50% rule, thus insulating themselves from roaming bills that hurt the bottom line... but they can still claim this huge network for national service because they DO have lots of roaming agreements.

With Verizon, they used to follow this (and they did have a 50% rule, it's in my AC I contract, which I'm still on), but then they found that they could get rid of the more expensive roaming areas without their coverage map looking like Swiss cheese (do you hear me, T-Mobile? Nextel?), thus they could dump the 50% rule, since the AC II phones won't register on the "expensive" roaming networks.

Also, Verizon have been buying up little carriers lately (Midwest Wireless, for example) so they can immediately change those from FRM (free roam, meaning the cheap advantageous agreements) to VZW.

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by Andy84094

I used to have a Cingular phone until last week and it was forced to T-Mobile most of the time so my calls wouldn't garble. Well about a month or two ago I could not register on T-Mobile anymore where I could before...they did the same to me.

This makes sense, if I understand that you intentionally forced your phone to use T-Mobile, instead of the available Cingular towers. That is in violation of the Cingular contract.

The OP's situation is a little different in that he is roaming in an area without Cingular service.

So far the only 2 postings here are problems with Dobson. Perhaps they charge too much compared to the other roaming partners. But I do agree now that Cingular should give some indication when your roaming, but it would be better to understand how pervasive the problem is with respect to different roaming partners.

[viewfly]

Originally Posted by ZaphodB

With Verizon, they used to follow this (and they did have a 50% rule, it's in my AC I contract, which I'm still on), but then they found that they could get rid of the more expensive roaming areas without their coverage map looking like Swiss cheese (do you hear me, T-Mobile? Nextel?), thus they could dump the 50% rule, since the AC II phones won't register on the "expensive" roaming networks.

Interesting ZaphodB. If your still on the old AC contract, do you still have the 50% rule? Or has the contract been changed or is it simply a mute point as you stated (about verizon dumping the expensive roaming partners)?

[bobolito]

Originally Posted by ZaphodB

Well, it's 50% of the calls made, not 50% of the minute pool available.....

ERRR! It's neither of those. It is "50% of your usage over three consecutive billing cycles" which is most accurately calculated by measuring the number of minutes used over a 3-month period. But then again, even that's not exactly what they are saying.

I think Cingular can afford to give people a warning in writing or via SMS rather than abruptly cutting off service. If the "too much roaming" trend continues for another 3 months, then the customer can be cut off. They should also let phones indicate when you are roaming and when not.

[maximus]

Originally Posted by ZaphodB

Also, Verizon have been buying up little carriers lately (Midwest Wireless, for example) so they can immediately change those from FRM (free roam, meaning the cheap advantageous agreements) to VZW.

ERRR!

Alltel bought Midwest Wireless. I believe VZW bought Mid Missouri Cellular.
Since alltel and vzw are so friendly with each other in their roaming agreement, whatever alltel buys benefits vzw and whatever vzw buys benefits alltel.

[bobolito]

ERRR!

Alltel bought Western Wireless!

[ZaphodB]

And Verizon did buy Midwest Wireless, I promise you.

[Ironwalt]

Originally Posted by ZaphodB

And Verizon did buy Midwest Wireless, I promise you.

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. and MANKATO, Minn.(11/18/05) – Alltel, owner and operator of the nation’s largest wireless network, and Midwest Wireless Holdings today announced they have entered into a definitive agreement for Alltel to purchase Midwest Wireless. Alltel expects to gain approximately 400,000 wireless customers in southern Minnesota, northern and eastern Iowa, and western Wisconsin. These markets are contiguous to existing Alltel operations and cover a